Spiritual Sunrises with Andrew

It was only upon reflection that Andrew realized how the light and beauty of specific spiritual experiences illuminated a path of subtle revelations and reminded him that the most profound encounters with Jesus Christ often unfold in the soft light of dawn, not in thunderous declarations. 

Join us for a deeply moving conversation that traverses the landscape of human experience, from the joyous union of marriage to the harrowing trials of addiction. Andrew's vulnerability in sharing his battle with pornography casts a light on the power of honesty, support, and love as cornerstones for healing. Alongside, we hear stories of divine guidance during financial hardship and the solace of prayer in the face of difficult loss. These narratives are a testament to an enduring divine presence and spiritual companionship that not only carry us through life's pivotal moments, but every daily one in between.

Please reach out to me if you are interested in sharing your story! I would LOVE to hear from you. :)

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Transcript

Lily: 0:06

Hello everyone and welcome to, More Than Coincidence, Remembering Jesus Christ in your Story. As the author and finisher of our faith, our Savior writes personal experiences into each of our lives which can later strengthen, empower and bring us peace upon reflection. This podcast is dedicated to sharing these anchoring memories from everyone's unique stories in order to collectively remember and testify of the reality of Jesus Christ and His presence in our lives. I'm your host, Lily, and I'm very excited to share these experiences together. Alright, so tonight on the podcast we have Andrew. Andrew, what's up?

Andrew: 0:45

How's it going?

Lily: 0:46

It's going great. Tell us about yourself.

Andrew: 0:48

Alright. Well, I am a husband to an amazing woman and a father of three and a half children. One is coming up due in a few months here. In my professional life, I'm an engineer and I enjoy getting out and doing things. They're fun hunting, archery, playing with RC cars, really anything. Sometimes I feel like I'm still a kid.

Lily: 1:08

Hey, that's awesome.

Andrew: 1:09

Absolutely.

Lily: 1:11

So what memories do you have that prick your heart and remembrance of our Savior Jesus Christ?

Andrew: 1:17

Yeah. So as I was thinking about this, I had a lot of thoughts about things and realized the amount of experiences that I have had through my life. With the exception of a handful of them, I don't feel like in those specific moments I really fully recognized what they were. I've always wondered where's the big event that people talk about? Where is that in my life? Everybody has these grand stories of things that happen and I've wondered where that was.

Andrew: 1:58

I really wanted to bring this up because I think it's important for a lot of people to feel that it's okay to be how I was. I think that most of us have little things each day that build that relationship for us, and I think that as we look back and reflect, we can begin to see them in a different aspect than we did before At least I do, especially as I was preparing for this. That's how I saw it. So when I first heard your podcast, the big thing I wanted to share was how I've only ever had little consistent experiences that shaped my relationship with Christ. But as I have reflected a bit more this week and after scheduling this, I feel a bit guilty because the stories that I'm going to go through might look large and special, but I honestly never realized that they were until I've been looking back at them and having this reflection and introspection. But as thinking on that, I think there's two principles there.

Andrew: 2:58

First, something that I learned on my mission from one of the mission presidents, counselors. He taught us regularly the importance of writing things down in our journal, writing down our spiritual experiences and writing down when we see the hand of God. And the big thing he taught was, if you don't feel like you're having any, start writing them down with the little things daily, each little spiritual impression that you have, and we'll start seeing them more, line upon line, whether we're receiving them or not, we'll be given them, we'll recognize them and we'll start being able to recognize more and more. And so we come to see that a lot more in our lives. Second was a talk by Elder Bednar several years ago.

Andrew: 3:45

I'm sure you remember it, but he said, talking about faith, that we hear people's stories of faith being flipped like a switch in a room and where it goes from darkness to immediate brightness. But most of us don't realistically have that. What we have is. The second example that he shared was that faith is more like a sunrise. It's a gradual rise and we quickly adapt and familiarize to the light that the sun is giving off, sometimes without recognizing that we've gotten to the point of high noon already. It's just happened so gradually that nothing seems different.

Lily: 4:24

You're like, oh, suddenly it's daylight, what?

Andrew: 4:26

happened Exactly.

Lily: 4:29

I think they're actually they put together. I think they used to be called the Mormon messages. I think there was a three-part series that he did about personal revelation or something where I think he mentioned that.

Andrew: 4:38

Yeah, I think that's what it was from, was there was a video, because I know it was in a book that he wrote?

Lily: 4:44

It all sounds really familiar, called.

Andrew: 4:45

Increase in Learning and then with that, yeah, I think he had a little three-part video series where he talked about that, and this was 15 years ago.

Lily: 4:54

It was a while ago, yeah.

Andrew: 4:55

I think right after I got home from my missions.

Lily: 4:57

Yeah, yeah, 12, 13 years ago.

Andrew: 5:02

That's for sure, but the so.

Lily: 5:09

There was never that single instant in my life where I felt that overwhelming enlightenment, an enlightenment as in like oh God lives, or enlightenment like the church is like or like what do you mean?

Andrew: 5:24

Yeah, any of that all of that Like I never. There was never a moment where it was like, oh my gosh, I have to change my life right now, because I had this singular experience that now I went from being like an arm of the younger experience.

Lily: 5:42

Exactly yeah.

Andrew: 5:43

Yeah, I never had that and sometimes that's one thing that I might talk about later is feelings I had like that on my mission, because I've always kind of questioned that in myself if I was wrong for not having those experiences Right. But coming full circle on that, looking back and reflecting, I think sometimes it looks more like those experiences are huge and in your face, because now I'm turning around and I'm looking directly into the sun.

Andrew: 6:14

I'm looking at those experiences where before I was living it while the sun was rising but, now it's like oh hey, I'm going to turn around, I'm going to look up into the sky and boom bright.

Lily: 6:26

Oh my gosh, yeah, like you can see it for what it is. I had these huge experiences. Yeah.

Andrew: 6:31

But yeah, again, genuinely. I know I've said this a bunch of times, but in the moment, sticking with the metaphor, I thought it was barely dawn at that point in time.

Andrew: 6:42

Right. So, yeah, a lot of words there. Hopefully that makes sense, but I wanted to touch on that because I feel like that's a very important thing, especially as people listen to your podcast and listen to other people sharing their stories. Like, yeah, they sound. Some things might sound grand and big, but when we look at our own lives, where we maybe feel like we've never had that, and we reflect back, those little consistent things are a big thing after a long time they all add up.

Lily: 7:11

Right? Well, I think that's the entire point of our baptismal covenant to remember, right? I love your metaphor of you. Know you're standing there and the sun's rising. You might not notice, but you, when you finally turn around and look at the sun and you look at the light and you recognize what's happening, then that's when it hits you, that's when you feel the warmth, that's when you know everything comes into the picture, and I think you can really only do that upon reflection, right? So I really like that analogy that you came up with.

Andrew: 7:38

I think it's spot on honestly yeah Well, thank you, I appreciate it All right. Now onto some specific stories and generalizations.

Lily: 7:48

Go for it.

Andrew: 7:50

I did try to select a few, but I feel like I could write a book with everything I want to share. So, starting out, I want to say that there have been a lot of times in my life where I struggle to recognize and feel love. Especially Christ's love has been a difficult thing to recognize for me, just because I haven't really understood what that felt like. But to the point of your question, what memories have anchored me to Christ? I've been able to look back and feel that love and I'm finally getting to that point where I can feel it during these experiences and not necessarily just back into reflection. So, first and foremost, we're going to go back several years.

Andrew: 8:37

So when I was nine, I lost my dad to a heart attack and, to make it worse, I was the one that found him, and that day was when I really began to recognize the Savior helping me in my life. That night I got a blessing that I would be able to forget what I saw of my dad when I found him. And to this day I cannot recall the images of what I saw when I found him. And I'm not talking like I just repressed the whole thing because of trauma or anything like that. I still vividly remember every detail of that day. I know what I ate for dinner, because I never wanted to eat it again for years. I know what I was doing before I walked into his room like detailed out, but what I have is a comforting blur of all the scary parts that I saw to a nine-year-old boy and as I've grown and had other experiences related to that, I've had the very real recognition that my father has been with me at very important parts of my life, such as when I gave one of my first blessings ever on my mission, and that was such a cool experience.

Andrew: 10:00

Out of nowhere I just felt that he was there with me, helping me give that blessing.

Andrew: 10:07

On my wedding day I got a blessing beforehand from some good family friends and again I felt him there with his hands on my head and I know that he was definitely there during the sailing, smiling with joy and looking down on us.

Andrew: 10:21

It never was easy growing up without a father, but I've had my testimony and the plan of salvation reassured over and over again because of that experience and I can say that he was at those important experiences in my life because of the love of God that, with family being such an important and critical thing and crucial thing in this world and to God's plan, that there's no way that he would not be able or he'd be unable to leave the important work that he's doing on the other side for a few minutes to be with his family. Yeah, and so that's like one of the first major things that I recall happening in my life that really set me up to feeling okay, god cares about me, he cares enough about me that in that blessing and the power of the priestess is real, that I was blessed to not be tortured by seeing what I saw that day and to be able to move on.

Andrew: 11:26

and then to be able to, yeah, just feel him there and feel his comfort throughout my life individually because, as a boy, needing that father figure in my life, needing that love and care, because my mom never did remarry and so I went through everything without him. So to know that God loves us so much, that those experiences not only is God there for, but my earthly father was there for, as huge and I absolutely love it.

Lily: 12:01

Well, and it just shows how much love is in the plan of salvation right and what a comfort that, yeah, that your dad was able to be there in everything and to show that love. I just that's incredible. I can't even fathom that, honestly.

Andrew: 12:16

And that's been one of. I would say, if there's one anchor that I've ever had, at any time where I was unsure, if I had a testimony, that was the one thing I could always look back to and say no, I'm sealed to my family, I will see my dad again.

Andrew: 12:33

I have no doubt in that, I can't have any doubt in that, because I need that, and so that's been the one thing, that, yeah, if there's ever been a struggle, I've always been able to hold on to that piece of knowledge, and so, as much as I hate that, that's the route that my life took and that it sucks like. I am able to see the blessings in there and what that provided to me.

Lily: 13:01

That's so. Wow, that's incredible.

Andrew: 13:04

So one of the other things that has anchored me to Christ is I've received a lot of guidance through my life as I've had to make important decisions, and one that always sticks in my mind was how I was led to my sweetheart, anika.

Lily: 13:23

Oh, I love these stories. Oh yeah, it's a good one.

Andrew: 13:27

It's a good one. So after my mission, I was ready to move into the next stage of my life obviously Wow Find a wife. Yeah, exactly, In my hometown it was not a. There wasn't a huge LDS population, so we had one YSA ward encompassing three stakes over the entire valley that I lived in. Oh my gosh, so we're talking from one end to the other, I don't know an hour drive or more so yeah, it was a large area.

Andrew: 14:02

Yeah, and one was I grew up with all those people and I just, I don't know not to be rude, but I didn't see any future with anybody from there. I wanted to leave, I wanted to get out and I was yeah, so it wasn't going to happen there for me.

Lily: 14:19

That's for sure. An even new start. Yeah, fresh.

Andrew: 14:21

Exactly so. Long story short, a lot of things came together very quickly for me to move to Arizona. I was in California at the time. So after being out there for a couple months and going on my fair share of dates, we had another family difficulty come up. As a result of that, I asked my brother-in-law, who I was living with at the time, if he would give me a blessing, and in it he instructed me that I needed to study the doctrine and covenants more. Not really sure why. Like this was well before the days of come follow me.

Andrew: 14:55

So I'm not quite sure where that came from, but, being a recent RM, I thought I had pretty good study habits and so yeah but for some reason the only thing that came to my mind after hearing that was all right, I need to go find an institute class teaching doctrine and covenants to help me out on this one, because it's never been my strongest suit is studying doctrine and covenants. I've always it's been a little difficult for me.

Andrew: 15:24

It's like Old Testament. Sometimes, now, being in Arizona, the college system has institutes available. Through them. There's obviously a lot of different course options. The only one that fit for my schedule was a 7am class at a campus that I wasn't even attending classes at. It just worked out with, it was closer to where I was and had to go to my next job and everything, yeah. So I signed up for it. I show up and there's five people in the class One guy who just sat in the back and, I think, was yet to go on a mission, so a younger guy, me, and then three young ladies.

Andrew: 16:05

Now, obviously, I'm 21, I'm home for my mission. I have a singular goal in mind, so I scoped out my options wherever I went. It was just something that happened. Anytime I went somewhere new, I was on the prowl. Well, there was only one in that class that caught my eye and now, almost 11 years later, she's my wife and we have three great children and another one on the way, and she's the perfect match for me. We've been through a lot and she's stuck by my side and been exactly what I've needed throughout all of it. So there's always been those little bits of guidance that have pointed me where I need to go, and that's a fun one. I love that one. That one's actually awesome. And continuing on with that too.

Andrew: 16:49

Like a few months later, while we're still dating, I was debating on marrying her and I was trying to figure out where all that stood. Yeah, so I was at the temple, being single, I went all the time. So I knew onica was there that day with a friend of hers doing baptisms, and I Think she knew I was there. I'm not entirely sure, but I was doing something upstairs and when I was done, getting dressed and about to leave, I had the distinct impression and thought of Go downstairs and surprise your wife, or surprise your future wife, and I was like Okay, that's a little ballsy of the spirit, yeah so I knew it was time to go get a ring at that point.

Andrew: 17:35

And yeah, it was. Just out there, because it was definitely before I had proposed. And yeah, it was. I was like, oh Well, that's a new thought. Yeah, all right, I guess.

Lily: 17:48

I'm going down stairs so, intimidated by that, like excuse me, mm-hmm.

Andrew: 17:53

Yeah, it, yeah, it was there and it was pretty obvious. So it was, that was cool. But yeah, as I was reflecting back on that, I can never think about meeting onica without knowing that I was directly guided to her and at my decisions on that were important enough to Heavenly Father that I was pushed in that direction. And yeah, I just love that because I mean, oh, who would ever think that a blessing telling you to go study the doctrine covenants would be Leading to right finding my wife right I?

Lily: 18:27

I did not think so, unless you would have prefaced it with. This is how I met my wife. I would be like oh, this is a nice story of you know doctor and covenants.

Andrew: 18:32

Yeah, and actually for a while I had forgotten about it. My sister brought it up after we'd been married a year or two and was like hey, remember, my husband gave you this blessing for this and yeah.

Andrew: 18:43

Oh yeah, I do remember that now. So another big Anchor for me has been receiving comfort, and I really hope that my stories are not just bouncing all over the place. I really trying to tie them together, but Things flow a lot better in my hand when I earn my head and when I write them down. So, and I might cry a lot during this one this one's still a little fresh, but two years ago, that same brother-in-law that gave me that blessing passed away.

Lily: 19:19

Yeah.

Andrew: 19:22

And that was very difficult. We lost him almost in an identical scenario to my dad, and that brought back a lot of memories from that and sadness of watching the Situation play out. For my sister. He'd been in my life for 26 years way longer than my dad so he was a firm part of my childhood and my life. Well, at the funeral, I was asked to give the family prayer and Anybody doesn't know what that is after the viewing. Sometimes, though a lot of times they'll close the doors and give the immediate family Just one last gathering with the family member and some things. I think my niece is saying a song, and then they close the casket for the final time.

Andrew: 20:02

Well, I had the privilege of closing that meeting with prayer, and Let me tell you I had no clue what to say and almost couldn't get any words past my tears. But as I began, I felt the comfort of the spirit like it never fell in my life before. I Was given exactly what to say that not only I needed, but I felt that other people in the room needed to hear, and, and I went from Barely being able to talk to being so comforted that my tears subsided and I was able to speak very clearly and very directly, and it's a feeling that I've never had before. But I was just filled with so much love for everybody in that room and the desire to just wrap them all in the biggest hug. And I wanted to strengthen those in the room that didn't have a testimony or had one that was failing them, that they would be able to feel and understand the plan of salvation in that moment and have confidence that we will see our brother again.

Andrew: 21:14

And that was just such a moving experience for me in a moment where I really needed a lot of comfort and, yeah, like I said before, it was Just so all-encompassing. I don't, I can't, think of another time where I felt that amount of comfort and that amount of clarity and peace In my life. Right, but then the interesting part of that like and as I'm saying this, I'm thinking more about it, but you know, you read in the book of Mormon about Enos praying for his sins to be forgiven and then immediately feeling an outpouring for All of his brother and then for the Lamanites and then for everybody else in the world right.

Andrew: 22:04

And I've never Quite understood what what that would feel like. But again, as I'm thinking about like that's kind of how that was like. Initially the comfort was there for me, yeah, but then it didn't take much to comfort me and then immediately it turned outward and I wanted to. I feel like I was reaching out spiritually to everybody else in the room and trying to touch and hug each person in there, and I think a lot of people Felt it as well.

Andrew: 22:40

just from my position, it felt like tears started increasing people were starting to feel it and, you know, feel that comfort as well and, yeah, it's just. That's another one that I look back to of. Yeah, I hate funerals. I hate everything about him. I hate death more than anything else. It's the last thing that I ever want to have to go through and if I can avoid it I'm gonna do my best. I'm gonna do my best, but to be able to know that Christ knew that and gave me the comfort that I needed then was Something that I will cherish forever because it was a moving, a moving piece.

Andrew: 23:26

Now, my final example is something that happened a little bit more recently. Again I've mentioned, my wife is pregnant and we have been having what we would we have both agreed has probably been the most trying months in our entire marriage, even given some other things that have happened, and it hasn't been a her against me kind of difficulty, but us against life. I had shoulder surgery scheduled, which I was in desperate need of, and now we're also looking at the cost of a baby, and not to mention all the other medical bills that the kids had just from accidents, from being kids.

Andrew: 24:04

Yeah it happens. But we were very stressed out and we're losing our minds about how we were supposed to pay for everything, because it felt like we were just getting by, despite having a fairly good career, and Both of us got into a pretty bad place and had some pretty hard thoughts that were quite ashamed of that we had had. And yeah, it was not an easy time for us and yeah, there's no other way to put that, but yeah, it was very difficult. Well, right in the midst of that, we scheduled our tithing declaration with the bishop. Everything went pretty normal it's fairly standard but at the end he turned on a cat and asked very directly and specifically what miracle Our family needed right now.

Andrew: 24:57

Well, she was honest with him about what we needed, that we're very concerned financially and we both broke down crying as we discussed that with the bishop and he told us to do something that we've never really considered before. It's very simple, but we've never considered it. He asked us to pray specifically for a miracle and I've never just I've never done that. You know, I've prayed for specific things. Oh, I need this or I'm looking for a new job. I need help finding a new job, removing help me right decide if this is the right move.

Andrew: 25:38

But we've never just prayed saying, hey, I need a blanket miracle, I need something.

Andrew: 25:44

I don't know what I need but I need something and he explained how he came to feel to ask that question and to ask onica specifically and not me, because he was so inspired that I Wouldn't give him the answer I wouldn't tell the truth, but the onica would. And it's just amazing because our bishop is amazing and he's very in tune with the spirit and understanding what Christ wants him to do. But we felt so much love from the bishop and from Christ in that moment and and we knew that Christ saw our struggles, that we were having and just that we got a big hug from the Savior telling us that everything was gonna be okay.

Lily: 26:42

Right.

Andrew: 26:44

Because that's one thing that we've wanted. Like we're doing everything right, why?

Lily: 26:51

Yeah.

Andrew: 26:51

We're going to church every Sunday. We're doing everything that we can.

Lily: 26:55

Right, like, what more do we do, are we?

Andrew: 26:56

being overlooked. Yeah, are we? Do you see us? In this moment we felt seen and you know that was even one thing that Bishop said was you know, god recognizes the sacrifices that you've made in callings and in these things, like he is aware you are seen, and that was just so comforting to feel that. So we prayed for a miracle at the end of that meeting and by the time we got home, a lot of my personal stress had melted away. I still didn't know how, and I still don't know how we're gonna pay for everything, but I knew that things would be okay and within the next week or maybe two weeks, some things started happening. That could be the beginning of those miracles starting to blossom.

Andrew: 27:58

I'm still waiting to see how all of that plays out, but I've been able to see things from a different perspective and I think that that's helped. That's kind of been one of the first miracles was okay. Let me look at my situation from a different point of view. How can I change this? How can I look at this differently To be able to provide and to take care of my family and do the things that I need to, because as a husband and father, that's the biggest stress I have is how am I supposed to take care of my family when going to the grocery store costs $60 for one night's meals? It's ridiculous. I know that's what happened to us today too.

Lily: 28:39

I was like I can't do this.

Andrew: 28:40

I'm like I need it and then, on top of that, having to pay for surgery and all this stuff, it just adds up, and so it was really getting to me that we still have those stresses, we still have those worries, but I know, without a doubt, that somehow God is going to make it work for us, and the key takeaway for us from that meeting was the outpouring of God's love for me and for my family, and to be recognized, to know that he is there and that we do have that relationship with him.

Lily: 29:17

I feel like that reminds me when you were talking about this. I just had the scripture. I don't know what the reference is, but just be still and know that I am God Right. I just think it's so, it's powerful that it wasn't like, hey, God, I need this specific thing. Can you please give me this specific thing? It was no, I just need a miracle. And then you just had to stand back, be still and just wait and just see how he maneuvered and how he did things. I think that is that takes a lot of faith. First off, you guys are awesome. But too, I just can't even imagine it does like you said. It shifts your perspective and you have to start looking for things differently. Where is his hand? Where is he? What else can I do to better see or be his hand? But to take that moment and pause and to be still and just say, okay, God, you've got this.

Andrew: 30:12

And it is not easy. Let me tell you. The question we keep asking, that we've always asked, because every time that we've had a blessing with something, whether it was graduating college, without a job or anything it's been the last minute and I'm like can we please get something a little more than last minute, because I just want to know going into something that I'm good, that I'm good right. And so, yeah, that standing back and watching is hard, and I came across something the other day it might have been a conference talk, I don't know.

Andrew: 30:53

Whatever it was. They were referencing an apostle. I want to say it might have been Elder Packer, but it was a newly acculled apostle and he was saying oh, I don't know if I can do it, I need to be able to see. I want to see the end from the beginning and see what's going on.

Andrew: 31:14

Yeah, me too. Me too, don't we all? So he was on an assignment with the senior apostle and the senior apostle told him well, sometimes God needs us to walk to the edge of the light and then take a few steps into the darkness, and I think the talk is called. I think it's called the edge of the darkness, and I think it was a talk somebody gave at BYU, right? But I'm just sitting there like, yes, but does it have to be every time? So to that point? Yes, like you said, standing back and watching God and understanding that sometimes those blessings might not come right as early as we're hoping, really, how it's been all our case in my life we can relate to that.

Andrew: 32:04

Always been several steps into the dark, maybe a step or two before the dark, but not so much more than that but my thought there.

Lily: 32:13

That's awesome.

Andrew: 32:15

All right, this next one. This is just a quick one. So, as I referenced before about being on my mission and wondering if it was okay that I never had one of those huge come to Jesus moments. In the MTC, you're always introducing yourself. You're always meeting new people. There's always an introduction.

Andrew: 32:43

One of the questions that they always ask is why are you on a mission? And I hated that question. And I hated it because you would get missionaries that have these grand stories, these grand explanations of oh, I finally read the book of Mormon and I knew I had to go on a mission and I'm just like, okay, great, that didn't happen to me. I felt bad because my reasoning was oh, it's the next step in my grasp of progression, it's what I'm going to do after I graduate high school. I'm going on a mission. I didn't have any grand commanding voice saying oh, you need to go on a mission because this, that and the other. And so at these introductions, I found myself looking like all right, what can I say to just wow people? How can I? What twist can I put on my why?

Lily: 33:41

I'm here.

Andrew: 33:48

But I never made anything up. It was just elaborating on my true stories. But yeah, like I said, I just always knew that it would happen and that I had a testimony of the gospel because of my life experiences and, as I mentioned, I had a very sure testimony of the plan of salvation and that that was it. I knew it was my priesthood duty to serve and to share my testimony with others and I was there to do that. And I always felt like that wasn't good enough. But as I've looked back, like that reasoning was perfect for me personally. I didn't need anything to push me over the fence because I never debated if it was an option. I was already so far gone. I couldn't even see the fence. I was like it was going to happen.

Andrew: 34:31

I went because I knew that I would, and I don't feel guilty that I didn't have a huge reason Like I went. Again, there's my priesthood duty. I knew that God wanted me to share my testimony and I was happy to do that. I don't I didn't ever feel like, oh, I need to do it because I know there's one person specifically out there that needed me. I know that I helped people find the church and it was great and I love them because of it and I love those people that I met in my mission. But yeah, it was never. You don't have to have those big experiences. It is okay to just know what you're doing is on the path and that's okay. And I think Rachel mentioned something like that too, because I remember listening to that one and Rachel took what I wanted to say because she talked about all the little things and it is so true.

Lily: 35:31

By small and simple things.

Andrew: 35:33

Yep, exactly Small and simple things and line upon line.

Lily: 35:37

But why does it have to be like that? It'd be so much easier if it was a big thing. Just kidding.

Andrew: 35:42

I know, yeah, so I'm glad that I'm not the only one who sees it, and other people see it too.

Lily: 35:49

Yeah, you are not alone.

Andrew: 35:56

It does amaze me to know that God is always there and he's always trying to reach us.

Andrew: 36:03

People always say God never leaves us, we leave him, and I have a testimony of this because I've managed to get little glimpses of inspiration and confirmation of my choices while being engulfed in sin and addiction.

Andrew: 36:30

For the longest time I struggled with pornography addiction and I really want to share this that perhaps it might help somebody listening, because I was greatly helped by somebody who shared their story in a previous ward and it's not an easy thing to talk about and this is one that I really wanted to share it because I really feel like I need to and it's not something I talk about often or I talk about lightly in any way.

Andrew: 37:04

Yeah, so I'm just going to jump into it because, again, I hope that it can help somebody and I feel like I've been blessed to be in a place that to where I'm at now and that, especially you doing your podcast and being able to be on here, that hopefully my story can reach somebody who does need it, because it is such a problem now. It is so hard to not come across it. I mean, you have your phone in your pocket, you can reach anything, and I would almost argue that a large chunk I don't want to say every man, but a good 95% of men and women I'm coming to learn that more are exposed to it and from a young age it starts.

Andrew: 38:01

It's a hard thing to get out of and it's a hard thing to discuss and talk about because of just how it's portrayed and how people think about it and because it is such an evil and nobody wants to admit to having struggled with it or having that as something that they have a problem with. So shortly into our marriage, I confessed to my wife that I was struggling with that issue and, as you can imagine, that was not an easy thing for her to hear, which is why it's also interesting that, if I told her this and our hard list time in our marriage has been the past couple months, we've been in a bad place past couple months.

Lily: 38:48

It's been rough, buddy.

Andrew: 38:52

But she, as I said, she was exactly the wife that I needed and she is something so special and truly was prepared for me because she's shown me so much love over the years when she didn't have to. This came out before we had kids. If she wanted to leave, it would have been easy, but she stuck with me and wanted to help me out through it and I wouldn't be where I am today without her love and forgiveness. It wasn't easy for her and we worked through it together. For a while I was filled with a lot of shame of what I was struggling with and I finally went with her to talk to the bishop and that was quite difficult for me to agree to go do, but I knew it was necessary. And that was hard because I always felt like, oh, going to the bishop is oh you've messed up like this isn't just a.

Andrew: 39:58

I never understood how much love the bishop could have for you. I was always so scared.

Lily: 40:04

Of the judgment of like the punishment. Punished and it's going to be bad things.

Andrew: 40:10

And I remember talking. I talked to a bishop when I was a teenager in this and that was difficult and the interesting thing is that even he showed me so much love but yet now, several years later, I was very nervous to do it again because Satan was just blocking that love and saying no, don't go to the bishop, you're going to get a consequence. You could be kicked out of the church. You could have that. You could have that.

Lily: 40:42

Yeah.

Andrew: 40:42

That's not going to happen. It's the bishop is going to approach it with love and with the spirit and help you out. That's what they're there for is to help. Yeah, they're a judge, but first and foremost, their judgment is to help you.

Andrew: 40:58

so that you can get over it so that you can be judged correctly and be judged righteously when the time comes. So after that I still struggled a lot for a few years. I was really confident that I could overcome it on my own and I didn't need any help from anybody else. Yet again, another lie from Satan. So we set things up to try to prevent me from falling into temptation behavioral checks, mostly just like having the computer where it was visible, and just little things. And it was a lot of trust on Anika's part that I was not going to pull my phone out and look at something. I wasn't going to do, something that I shouldn't, and it was mostly just we set things up to prevent me from falling to temptation. But eventually I'd find ways around those blocks because I was just trying to stop the action and not address the deeper issues behind it.

Andrew: 42:06

Eventually I decided that I needed to attend the addiction recovery program sponsored by the church and that was probably one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. And the first day I went I guess it was maybe a little miracle because I was so scared. I was the only person there. It was me and the person running it, so it was a very private thing, which I think was good for me at the time. There was a brother in our ward at the time that I respected and I knew that he helped out with the diction recovery program, and so I was very nervous of what he would think when he saw me there. Yeah, eventually I got over that. He never once said anything about it. He still talked to us, just as normal as could be, yeah.

Andrew: 42:57

Yeah, and absolutely no, no judgment came from him. So I attended quite regularly and it helped a bit. And one thing that I saw was that I wasn't in as bad of a place as I potentially could have been, but I was still ashamed of myself. I still knew that I was, I was trapped and that I couldn't get out of it. I still struggled to hide it from my wife and hide it from the group because I didn't want to be seen as a failure. I didn't want to say, oh, I messed up this weekend, right, and one of the things is when you're starting, it's, you know, introducing yourself and a lot of times I've been clean for so long, yeah, and I really didn't want to be the guy who was. I've been clean for five hours, yeah, I did not want to do that. So I just continued to hide it and stretch the truth.

Andrew: 43:55

Oh, maybe that, maybe that wasn't maybe I didn't really look at something Right Technically yeah, and so I was still lying to myself and I was only making a partial effort to work through it. Then we moved to Utah and I was still struggling and despite how forgiving and loving Anika was when I confessed that I wasn't doing good, I would still hide it from her for months when I would screw up. That was not. I still didn't want to tell her. I didn't want her to know I was weak. I didn't want to keep disappointing her. Right, and I kept turning back to I can do this myself. I've got this. I've got the power. I will be able to. If I can just hold out for three months, then I won't have a temptation. If I can hold out for a year, I'll never be tempted again. Right, it's not true. It was. I failed every time because I was just relying on myself. I say my prayers, ask for help, whatever. But that was where it stopped and it was not enough. And now we're several years since I've told her and it was still quite a challenge for me.

Andrew: 45:07

Then one Sunday at church a brother got up to speak and he said he had a whole talk planned out, but while he was sitting on the stage he felt the prompting to abandon his talk and instead tell his story about how he was in the middle of recovery from his pornography addiction and at that point was five years clean.

Andrew: 45:28

And that was directly for me, I feel like, because I think at that time I was struggling and I don't remember if I'd had a setback relatively recently to that but I was struggling and I was so inspired that he would open up about it and willingly tell others to help somebody. Um, and that was a place of confidence that I wanted to get to. I wanted to be able to stand up and say, hey, I did it, you can do it, and I'm happy to be right here Like talking my way through it. And because I felt that spirit and that love of wanting to help others, knowing how difficult it was for me and knowing how I kept it so bottled up, and wanting to reach out and say, brother, it's okay, you are not alone in this. And so for him to get up was mental.

Andrew: 46:28

Yeah, it meant a lot to me. So after sacrament meeting, with a lot of encouragement from Monica, uh, I went up to him and I grabbed him and I thanked him and told him that I too was struggling and I just started crying because, other than in addiction recovery and my wife, that was the first person that I had told that I was struggling with it. And he just wrapped me in a hug and told me it was okay and I've never gotten that before from complete stranger. I didn't really know this guy. We kind of hid in the ward and we didn't have any close relationships with anybody in that ward and he just loved me for who I was and loved me and knew that I could do it. And that was a major turning point for me. We got together shortly after that and talked about things and one of the biggest things he told me that I've really come to understand and believe in is that I needed to open up more to others for help and support.

Lily: 47:35

And you know, you kind of think yeah, I, I thought it's counterintuitive and that's like exactly what the devil tells you not to do. Keep a secret, keep it safe.

Andrew: 47:43

Exactly. And you know, he told me like, yeah, the hiding and the fear all came from shame. And what would people think of me, especially my family, when I tell them this? And he pointed out well, what would happen? Either they support you and understand, right, or they hate you and don't talk to you again. What do you think is more likely to happen from your family? Right, I'm like, true, I guess you're right, like, and if they do hate me, okay?

Lily: 48:23

Well, that's on them.

Andrew: 48:24

Yeah, I guess that really doesn't affect me much because I know I'm trying to do right by God, and that was what mattered most. And the next thing he told me is exactly what you said Satan uses shame to keep his chains on me, and that is so true. I have so come to understand this that pornography addiction is something that happens in secret and is kept from others. So by keeping it secret out of shame, we're still playing into his power. We are still saying, oh yeah, man, I don't want to tell anybody about this because it's shameful.

Andrew: 49:08

It's evil. I'm just going to keep it a secret, and that's how Satan keeps you in his loop. And that's where I was at.

Lily: 49:16

Right, and it's like you're playing a game in his home turf.

Andrew: 49:19

Yeah.

Lily: 49:19

Right, like you say, I can do this. I know that I'm strong enough to overcome this, but you're playing on his field.

Andrew: 49:25

Yeah.

Lily: 49:25

Right, he has, he literally has you isolated. Yeah, right.

Andrew: 49:30

And it's impossible to leave at that point, and as soon as we open up to other people and we get out of that secrecy, it takes his power away. We walk off of his field and we say no, we're playing this by different rules. Now Right.

Lily: 49:52

And Jesus yeah.

Andrew: 49:54

I'm on team Jesus 100% now, and that was the key for me. That was the piece that I was missing. I struggled because I just told Anika I was doing fine and could do it alone, and I would hide it when I was messed up and then would have less strength to overcome as time went on. I would feel it wearing me down. I would start just like, oh, this isn't that bad. I would justify my way Right, until I found myself oh man, I've gone in too deep and now I don't want to tell Anika, because not only do I have to tell her that, I messed up, but that, hey, I've been messing up for the past couple months and it's gotten worse and that is not easy and so, yeah, at most I could only stay clean for a couple of months during those times.

Andrew: 50:45

So after that, after we had that conversation, I was determined to be 100% open with my wife. She would check in on regularly on me, not only if I messed up, but now we started adding if I was tempted, and we started talking more about just about it in general and what I was doing to kill the temptations, how they came up, what was the triggers for me and what you know, the biggest thing for me. It turned into a two-part thing of one being overly stressed out and that's when I would always have a setback was when I was just out of my mind, stressed about something and the other one that I reflected on was the feeling of not being I can see, if I can remember the right way to phrase it like not feeling important to other people, I guess, and feeling like feeling forgotten, I guess, is what it is, yeah, and maybe not loneliness, but feeling forgotten, like I was just there around other people, but I wasn't being seen yeah.

Andrew: 52:01

And that and I turned to pornography because it felt like as much of a lie as it is. Yeah, it's like oh well, this is, this is directly to me.

Lily: 52:11

This is giving me attention, yeah.

Andrew: 52:14

It's making me feel like, oh, this is being done so that I can be happy, right yeah, which is a complete lie. False For the record.

Lily: 52:24

That is a lie.

Andrew: 52:27

And so those were the two biggest things. But, yeah, really the key shift still was that shame being able to look away from that shame, because I never was able to realize those two big triggers until I got out of it to this point. We still had protections in place passwords on computers, locked my phone out of the internet, web browsers and app stores but those things were there now instead of stopping me. They were there just to help me avoid a temptation. Correct, I'm sure I could find a way around them if I really wanted to, but because I've shifted my mindset now it's a oh, I just need, I need just something little to help me snap out of it and say oh, what are you doing? Like you don't want to do this, Get away from here. To gut, check me into realizing that, hey, I'm walking the wrong way right now. I need to turn around.

Lily: 53:26

Right, well, and I feel like we've seen similar things in our marriage too, where my husband and I have had to sit down and have the conversation of what are the triggers, because I really like how you brought that up, because his are similar and mine are similar where it's. You know, are we too stressed out? Are we feeling lonely? I think there was some acronym that Michael likes to bring up, like BLAST or something. It stands for something.

Lily: 53:47

But you know, tired, stressed out, sad. You know all of these things, I think, once you figure out what feeds into it, because in what I've seen anyway, at least in our marriage and our relationship, it's like a coping mechanism, right, all of these things, whether it's eating, drinking, pornography.

Lily: 54:04

You know, being grumpy like anger all these things, you know, there there are reaction and there a way to kind of cope with what's happening in your brain and in your body. So I think it's so incredible that you guys were able to have that vulnerability, because that's the hardest part. I remember when because I, you know, I struggled with an eating disorder like all throughout high school and all throughout college, and my husband's has struggled with some things too and so both of us having separately to come and sit together and be like, have that vulnerability and and and talk about that. These are the triggers. This is how we're gonna avoid the temptation. But it's that change of heart.

Lily: 54:42

You have to really have that change of heart, and being vulnerable sucks like exposing yourself sucks so bad. But it's exactly what you said it's once you start allowing that light to come in, then you can slowly start taking those steps forward and getting allies on your team rather than playing a game against the devil. And that's it right. There's no way you're gonna win on his home turf. But once you're able to be vulnerable and allow others in and recognize things and get more tools and change your heart, I feel like that's maybe where the change can really take root. Right? Yeah, you've seen it in your life and I've seen it in my life.

Andrew: 55:21

Yeah, it's made it so much easier Since realizing that and, yeah, taking that power away from him, because now I'll go months without a temptation, yeah, instead of before it was like made it through another day and like barely a week, and you know, and now it's been a couple years that I've been Completely clean and it's such a great feeling. And when I do have, when I have had slip-ups, like it wasn't nearly as bad as before I I was a lot quicker to realize, ah, I know, and I gotta go to Alonika. But one thing too that Shifted in my perspective because of that too, is I used to feel like when I had a mistake and I had a slip-up, that I had taken a hundred steps forward, but now I just backslid all the way and I was at negative again right.

Andrew: 56:23

But I finally started to realize that no. I might have taken a hundred steps and, yeah, I messed up, but I only went back a couple steps, I didn't go back to ground zero here, yeah and I'm gonna take another hundred before the next one and another.

Andrew: 56:38

like it keeps adding up, yeah, and I was always moving in a positive direction and that was that was the key, like being able to see that me like, okay, yeah, this is going to be a struggle for a while, like even now, it's still going to be a struggle is not something that I'm cured of? Yeah but I have a lot more resources and a lot more confidence to sell. Tell Satan that Get out. I don't want you here anymore right.

Andrew: 57:08

I'm not hiding in the closet, I'm not Keeping this. I'm going to tell Everybody, so that you can't get me and better yet.

Andrew: 57:19

I'm gonna take what people away from you. So suck on that one, because I'm part of the other team and I'm recruiting and I'm in business. So Now, closing that story off and coming back to what I brought at the beginning, I was still able to get glimpses of the spirit during this. God was still there, trying to send me answers to things. This was a several year period. We still had prayers, we still needed revelation of how, what moves to make for our family, and at times I was able to peek through the blinds, away from the chains that I tied myself inside with, and Receive the revelation, but I was blocking the full extent of his love and guidance. Since all of this, I've grabbed the key, I've unlocked my chains, I've walked outside and he's still there and I still, and I feel his love so much more Because I got out of the walls that I put up.

Andrew: 58:23

The thing I have to say to anybody listening like if you're struggling with a secret addiction, open up and let those who love you help you and take the power of secrecy away from Satan. Recognize that your Heavenly Father is still there for you and he's trying to help you. All you have to do is get a glimpse through your walls and I can personally testify that the power of the atonement and the joy that comes from healing from an addiction, even if only the start to healing, feels so great. It is so much better than hiding in shame. You know, as Alma said, my soul was filled with joy, as exceeding as was my pain, and that I could remember my pains no more.

Andrew: 59:08

This was after feeling and wishing that he could have been banished and become extinct rather than be judged for his deeds. I know I felt like that sometimes, like please don't let me have to be judged for this. I would rather Anything else than that. But now, having that joy and and those words are true I felt the pains of my sin to that extent and the fear of judgment, and the fear of judgment from my wife and God. But the atonement does remove that pain and I'm so grateful for the Savior and what he did every single day Because of how I feel, or how I feel now. It is real, there is no doubt about that.

Lily: 59:51

That I literally am speechless, like I really don't. That's incredible, andrew, and I I really appreciate all of the stories that you've shared and everything I I can really feel the spirit. It's tangible in this room right now and you said a lot of things that have really helped me too. And Are there any other final thoughts, or would you like to leave us with a little testimony really quick?

Andrew: 1:00:13

Yeah, just Again, I know that Christ is there, I know he loves us so much and I know that there are little things in our lives every single day and when we look back on those and ponder Christ in our lives, we begin to see those. And as we begin to see those, I know that we come closer to Christ. And you know the past a little bit. While I've been getting ready for this and thinking about this, I've had such a spiritual couple weeks because of focusing on this. And, yeah, I know that, I know that God lives, I know that Christ is there and that they love us and they want the best for us. And, yeah, I say that in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Lily: 1:01:07

Amen. Thank you, andrew, for sharing your stories tonight.

Andrew: 1:01:09

Thank you.

Lily: 1:01:13

Thanks again for tuning into more than coincidence, remembering Jesus Christ in your story. Please follow us on social media or share us with a friend. If you have an experience you'd like to share, feel free to reach out. To more than coincidence, I can't wait to hear all of the amazing memories you all have of our Savior. See you next time.