More than Coincidence: Remembering Jesus Christ in Your Story
As covenant keeping disciples of Jesus Christ we have been commanded to Remember Him always. As the “Author and finisher of our faith,” our Savior writes personal experiences into each of our lives which can later strengthen, empower, and bring us peace upon reflection. This podcast is dedicated to sharing these anchoring memories from everyone’s unique stories in order to collectively remember and testify of the reality of Jesus Christ and His presence in our lives.
Please reach out to me if you are interested in sharing your story! I would LOVE to hear from you. :)
Follow us on Social Media:
Facebook: More than Coincidence: Remembering Jesus Christ in Your Story
Instagram: mtc.rememberingjesuschrist
Website: https://morethancoincidencerememberingjesuschristinyourstory.buzzsprout.com
Email: morethancoincidence.rememberhim@gmail.com
#RememberHim #christian #teamjesus #ldspodcast #testimony #ldslife #hearhim #thinkcelestial #christianpodcast #lds #Jesus #lastdays #jesuschrist #godisgood #memories #neverforget #helives #faithingod #faithinchrist #balmofgilead #masterhealer #faith #ldsconf
More than Coincidence: Remembering Jesus Christ in Your Story
We Need Each Other: Finding Unity in Christ with Cindy
Cindy’s incredible testimony of the necessity for unity among Christians despite theological differences could not be more timely and needed as it is today! Through engaging conversations, we discuss how understanding various denominations can enhance personal faith and foster a cohesive Christian community. Cindy then concludes with her heartfelt testimony about the reality and presence of our Father in Heaven and Savior as well as the unity we will feel as we do our best to navigate theological differences with love and respect.
Join us for an enriching discussion that underscores the importance of listening, love, and unity in our spiritual journeys!
Please reach out to me if you are interested in sharing your story! I would LOVE to hear from you. :)
Follow us on Social Media:
Facebook: More than Coincidence: Remembering Jesus Christ in Your Story
Instagram: mtc.rememberingjesuschrist
Website: https://morethancoincidencerememberingjesuschristinyourstory.buzzsprout.com
Email: morethancoincidence.rememberhim@gmail.com
**Transcripts available on website!
Hello everyone and welcome to. More Than Coincidence, remembering Jesus Christ in your Story as the author and finisher of our faith, our Savior writes personal experiences into each of our lives which can later strengthen, empower and bring us peace upon reflection. This podcast is dedicated to sharing these anchoring memories from everyone's unique stories in order to collectively remember and testify of the reality of Jesus Christ and his presence in our lives. I'm your host, lily, and I'm very excited to share these experiences together. Okay, good evening everybody. Tonight we have Cindy on the podcast with us. How are you, cindy? I am great. How are you? I'm doing really good. I've really enjoyed sitting talking to you and getting to know you before we interviewed so fun. So would you mind introducing yourself to everybody? Sure.
Speaker 2:So my name is Cindy Madsen. I am a wife, a mom, a grandma. I am a wife, a mom, a grandma, and I am a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I love Jesus, me too. I'm so grateful for him and I'm just excited to be on this podcast with you.
Speaker 1:Well, I am too. We've had a really fun time chatting, so I can't wait to hear what story you have. So I'll just ask you, Cindy um, what memories do you have in your life that you reflect on, that prick your heart and remembrance of Jesus Christ and anchor you to him?
Speaker 2:So, as I've thought about this, I have two different experiences that I wanted to share with you, that both that are different. They kind of I thought maybe showed a different way that Jesus would work in our lives. Yeah, and the first one was when I became engaged to my husband and married him. When I became engaged to my husband and married him. So our marriage story is we met in a modern British literature class at BYU Wonderful. We knew each other for a month and he asked me out, and one week after our first date we got engaged.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness. Yes, that's what most people say, right, but do I say, is that typical of BYU? I don't know. It's one of the fastest ones I've ever heard.
Speaker 2:I will tell you, this was what was interesting. When I met him, I knew that there was something about him that I just loved and I should back up, so I will be honest with you. His dad was a professor at BYU.
Speaker 2:His dad was Truman Madsen. I had taken a class from his dad and I just thought his dad was amazing. And so when I met him, I thought you know what, If he is anywhere near as wonderful as his dad, I want to get to know him. Yeah, and so I did. And so we. He asked me out, um, after we'd kind of gotten to know each other for a month and we went out and I just, I mean, we had so much fun, it was like talking to an old friend some right, yes, somebody that I had just picked up the friendship after we hadn't talked for a while and we had so much to talk about.
Speaker 1:It's so cool when that happens with any relationship. Yes, when you're just like, we just click.
Speaker 2:Yes, like it's just it's special and I can talk a lot. You know that because you talked to me. Yeah, he can out talk me. Oh, really, I had never met anybody that could do that, oh.
Speaker 1:I know That'd be refreshing. My husband like doesn't talk, so I wonder what that would be like being married to someone who talks a lot.
Speaker 2:So you know what? It's funny because I am probably and he would tell you this too I'm like the least spontaneous person that there is. I plan, everything from like my grocery list and menus to where we're going to go on vacation. What I'm going to do, you know the five-year plan all of this I plan everything, yeah, and I told him when we got married I'm like you can surprise me, but you have to tell me that you're going to surprise me so I can like get my head around this and yes, but that's hilarious.
Speaker 2:We after it was so we went on. Yeah, it was one week, and so we'd finally we got on, went on the state a week after our first date. We'd seen each other every day and had gone out and we were just talking about, about things, and and and, and it just kind of gradually led up to my husband saying, well, I think I think we should get married. And I said I think we should too, and I knew that was the right thing. Yeah, like that was. I knew it was, you could just feel it. And it was 42 years later. It was the right thing, yeah, so I was 20 years old and I A youngin.
Speaker 2:I was a youngin and it was the best decision I have ever made, but it was God directly speaking to me, interesting, letting me know I mean I didn't hear a voice or anything, right, but this very, very, very strong feeling that this was the right thing to do. Right, and it was the right thing to do. And it was very out of character for me, really, because it happened so fast and because it was just like okay, yes let's do this Literally that night we should get married.
Speaker 1:Yes, we should.
Speaker 2:But you felt the peace. I knew it was right. Yeah, I knew it was right. Yeah, wow, yeah, yeah, that's so cool and that that, that experience um it was unique in my life. So that is not normally how I have felt Right, God speaking to me that that is not normal for me. That was a very definite. This is right. This is what you need to do it right and I did and you know that was. Thankfully it paid off and it did I met your grand babies.
Speaker 1:They're so cute. They're lovely.
Speaker 2:Yes so, um, yeah. So, so that was a was a very different kind, and now I want to tell you another one that is much more normal. Okay, so in my patriarchal blessing it says this the Lord will prepare the way for you that you will be able to have advanced schooling. And then I'm going to stop right there and I'll read a little bit more later. So I've always known like that was in my patriarchal blessing and I did my undergraduate degree, um, like I said at BYU, yeah, um, and then, and we got married- and.
Speaker 2:I was only two years into it and right, so you finished and I. So I finished, yeah, um, and I. Literally I was walking across the stage three weeks before my second child was born.
Speaker 1:Oh, oh my gosh To get my diploma, that's insane.
Speaker 2:So I did it right. I got it done. I did it because that was really important to me, Right To get that degree and I had always thought I would go on and do graduate work. But you know, I had the babies, my babies, my kids, and my husband got a law degree at BYU and then went into the military, into the JAG. And we traveled and you know, there just wasn't, it wasn't the right time.
Speaker 2:There was no online schooling either no, and there just wasn't the opportunity. I ended up. We moved to England. My kids went to this amazing British school. I loved it. We came back to the United States. I just wasn't as happy with the school we were with. I ended up. I had a neighbor who homeschooled. I ended up homes know, my kids started getting married. My oldest son got married and when it was time for their child to start preschool, my daughter-in-law asked if I would start a preschool and I said sure, because she knew I'd homeschool the kids. So I did. I did a preschool for her, which organically grew into this. Yeah, so I did a waldorf preschool for eight years and then covet hit, and and and it was and I had. I had kind of been feeling like it was getting to be time to stop doing that and I'd been feeling these nudgings that it maybe was time to pursue graduate work. Okay, right.
Speaker 1:But you're like but it's COVID. Like how the heck am I supposed to go to school with COVID Right?
Speaker 2:And also like is that wise to do it this time, right, I mean, would I recoup the amount of money we put into graduate work? Exactly Did God mean when he said that I would receive advanced schooling? Was that just my undergraduate schooling, right, right?
Speaker 1:he said that I would receive advanced schooling. Well, was that just my undergraduate schooling? Right, right. What does this mean? Yeah, where do I go? What does it mean? Yeah?
Speaker 2:And these were very just, these gentle nudgings, and I am reminded of Elijah, when he was fleeing from Jezebel, queen Jezebel, who was trying to kill him, and so he went to Mount Sinai and found a cave, and he hid in it and the Lord told him to go up to the top of the mountain where he could speak to him.
Speaker 2:So that's total temple, temple text, temple ideas there, right, and so he did and it talks about that. The Lord, you know he came. You know the Lord, you know he came. You know the Lord passed by him. There was a great earthquake, there was a great fire.
Speaker 2:There was a great wind, right. The Lord wasn't any of those things. And then you think, like there's like this pause, right, and you can imagine he is out in the desert, there is this fragile stillness, and then the Lord speaks, right, and it's in this still small voice, and maybe that's why he could hear him right, because everything was quiet.
Speaker 1:It was quiet now, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, but you can imagine that right, this desert quiet and this quietness of the voice right.
Speaker 2:Right, just very quiet. That is usually more how I feel God, yeah, very quietly, and that was how it was in this situation, and I talked it over with my husband and he was, he just was. You know, you should do this. It doesn't matter if you quote unquote do anything with this degree. Yeah, if you feel that this is what God is nudging you to do, like you should do it. Feel that this is what God is nudging you to do, like, yeah, you should do it, you should do this. And so I did. I decided it was yeah, we're gonna shut the preschool down. Covid was. It was tricky, everybody had so many expectations anyway. Right, so I did. And um, and everything had closed.
Speaker 2:So might as well take a break right, and so I just started thinking about where, and I knew and this is where things had changed over the years that I wanted to go to either a divinity school or a seminary of some sort, Right To do a degree in theologies yeah, either biblical history or theology, and so and I really particularly focused on the Old Testament, which is my love that was really where I were, the area of that I really wanted to study, but I also knew that it would be fairly easy for me to get into a more liberal seminary as an LDS person. As an LDS person, no judgment I mean. Every school can choose who they want to go to Exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:But I knew I wanted to go to a more conservative school and that might be difficult, but the reason was because I wanted my professors to be believers, really committed to Jesus, to God, to the Bible Right, and so I did. So I applied to several different seminaries that I thought might be more ecumenical, right, and was turned down by several because of theological differences, which totally understand, and that's fine, yeah, but one of the seminaries that I had applied to was Calvin Theological Seminary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I applied there because they're in Grand Rapids, michigan, and Grand Rapids is a really interesting place because it's very Christian. It's. It's the home of the three biggest Christian publishing houses. Are there Baker Books, zondervan and Erdman? Yeah, they're all there. But the big reason I wanted to apply was because my dad grew up on a farm in St John's, michigan it's about an hour and a half away from Grand Rapids, and I am a convert, as I said, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and so none of my relatives are members of the church and I I mean, we're friends, but I live in Utah, they're in Michigan.
Speaker 1:It's just so far away. Yeah, this will give you a chance to go be with them.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly I knew that I could do that you know yeah and um, but I didn't think I would get into Calvin because they are a conservative Christian school.
Speaker 2:But, bless their hearts, I would get into Calvin because they are a conservative Christian school. Yeah, but bless their hearts, they took a chance on me and they applied. I mean, they accepted me, yeah, and it has been wonderful Really, this amazing experience, right, and I have met the most amazing Christian friends. Yes, most amazing Christian friends, yes, I have had amazing professors who are so godly, yes, so good, and know so much, yes, and I have learned so much from them. So I just want to read a little bit more about from my blessing, and it says this. It says so.
Speaker 2:I will. I'll just start again. The Lord will prepare the way for you that you will be able to have advanced schooling. I bless you that you will seek and desire the opportunity to associate with peers during this educational opportunity that you will have, which will strengthen you and build up and build. Build you up and prepare you for the mission that you have upon the earth. It will be in this environment that the Lord will bear witness to your soul in even more powerful ways, of the divinity of the mission of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and of Jesus Christ and of the great work that he did in providing salvation for the souls of men.
Speaker 1:That's so prophetic, holy cow.
Speaker 2:Right. Oh my gosh, because that is what has happened. Yes, I have learned so much about the Savior Right and from people who love him. Yes, there may be nuanced differences that we have Right.
Speaker 2:There may be theological differences, but their love for Jesus Christ has profoundly deepened my love and I am so grateful for them. I am so grateful for what they have taught me about the Savior, what they've taught me about I've always loved the Bible. What they've taught me about I've always loved the Bible, but I love it even more because of their love and what they've taught me, and so I just feel like, uh, that part of my blessing that was given to me has, for me, completely from God, has been fulfilled. But it took effort on my part too, right, right, do you understand what I'm saying, right? So I feel like God will nudge you in these quiet ways.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And if you act on those things, and if you try to fulfill these little whisperings, these little, the little, still small voice, the things that you hear, he will bless you in that.
Speaker 2:And if your blessing, your patriarchal blessing, says things, if you work to try to fulfill it in whatever way you think is right, if it is right, the Lord will open things up. Yes, exactly. So I think, yeah, that that that was so important to me to see that there are differences, and I think oftentimes it can be hard in this world that we live in, agreed.
Speaker 1:It is loud.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is full of distractions. Right, it is hard to slow down, to be still to hear, still enough to hear the voice of the Lord. Right, that time, during COVID, when everything did slow down, it forced me to stop enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, too bad it took a pandemic for us to all be still.
Speaker 2:Right, it's not that I hadn't kind of started feeling nudgings that maybe it was time to switch gears. Kind of started feeling nudgings that maybe it was time to switch gears, but when everything shut down Right, it really made me stop long enough because of the busyness. Yeah, it was such a part of my life and is again yeah, when we don't, it's like natural to us.
Speaker 1:We don't understand what stillness versus busyness is, because it's just what we do. It's what we do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and our American culture really, I agree really promotes this. Yeah, we're way too fast paced. Sometimes we get our validation from how productive we are. That's me.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:I'm guilty, we all are, because that's what our culture tells us is valid, that's what our culture tells us is right is how you get your worth, how busy or how productive. What are you producing? Right, right, right. But we, we slowed down enough so that I could just stop for a little bit and hear this. So I had to. So, once I'd made the decision, um, and and and was deciding who to send things out, who who to send out applications. Yeah, then, at that point, you started to, I started to have people getting back to me and you do interviews and things like that, and I think what was hardest for me. And so here's the next thing is that I, when I did join the church, there was a lot of opposition from one of my, from my grandparent on my mother's side, and, and I think because of that I I've always been a little more reserved about my belief. Yeah, just a little more hesitant.
Speaker 2:I think, yeah, never quite sure how anybody would react. And, um, and this process caused me, you had to put yourself out there.
Speaker 1:I had to put myself out there. You had to defend everything.
Speaker 2:Probably, too, I did, and I also had to just state what I was to people who may not feel good about that, and that's okay, but you know, right. So I feel like that was the Lord also really stretching me to say you know, come on, girlfriend, you have got to step it up here. You have got to just put yourself out for me and for the Savior. You have got to yes, not that I, I mean within my own sphere of my congregation- my, you know my church I very much am this is literally going out of your comfort zone, out of my.
Speaker 2:You are doing my congregation, my.
Speaker 1:You know my church I very much am this is literally going out of your comfort zone, of my comfort zone, yeah, completely right out of my comfort. And not only that, it's like you're paying. You're going to try paying money to be here and to like spend a lot of time with this right, so I think's that's really daunting.
Speaker 2:It was daunting, yeah it was yeah, so in my school I do it's a hybrid program and so I do it online but I also go back every semester in person to do intensive classes. Yeah, and so the first time that I was going to go back, it was nerve wracking for me. In fact, my daughter-in-law, the day before we flew out, she said I can't.
Speaker 1:She'd come over and she said you look like a deer in the headlights who's about to throw up, and I said that's how I feel. Pretty accurate, that was how I feel.
Speaker 2:So when I went back there in one of my classes he was going through and having us introduce ourselves and he said you know, give your name, where you're from, a little bit about you, Right, and if you would like share what religious denomination you are. Now the school that I go to, Calvin Theological Seminary, is church. It's CRC, so Christian Reformed Church, yes, and so most of the people were Christian Reformed or American Reformed. There were a couple that were Pentecostal. And then they get to me and my initial thought, when he had said this I'm not going to say what I am, I am not that brave.
Speaker 2:But by this time everybody had not only told about themselves, but they also told what religious denomination they were Right. So I said well, I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, so I am the resident heretic in the room. What did they say? Every LDS person I talked to laughs. There was a shocked silence.
Speaker 1:but I thought well, we'll get it out there.
Speaker 2:And you know what, afterwards this man who has become a sweet friend, eric, he came up to me. He said that was so brave of you. And he said I am so grateful that you are here. We need you. Right, and that is what I found and and I feel like I need them too. Yes, we need to pull together, and I think, as Christians, we have all found that we have to pull together or we will fall together. Yes, and I say that for them and for us Right, we need each other.
Speaker 2:We need each other and I see a gathering happening. The Lord is gathering his people, yes, who believe in his son. He is bringing us together. I have seen that happening. I see an openness and acknowledgement that there are theological differences, often profound theological differences. Right, and that's okay. Right, we can hold hands, yeah, you know, and we can accept that the differences are there. That's why we have two hands right one to say that we're the same and one to say that we're different, and we can reach across the aisle and we can grab hands yes, and we can work together to promote or I don't know how you want to say it, but to declare j Christ.
Speaker 2:I think that's the way to say it. Correct, we can work together. Correct, we can, we can talk about our savior, yes, so that that in that way, my testimony of him Right has grown tremendously Right. My testimony of my religious denomination also has. So I feel like in that way, I have been blessed. I have been blessed to have this quiet voice telling me an important thing and I listened to it. I faced a lot of fears Right, and I was stretched and have been stretched.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we'll continue to be stretched continue to be stretched because you're not done. You have one semester left. We're almost there, but yes, yeah and um, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then at that point, yeah, you asked earlier what, what do I, what do I want to do with this degree? When we were talking earlier and now here is the thing I'm waiting. I'm waiting again because I know that the Lord will start moving me in the direction that he wants me to go. He did this for me I needed to grow, but he did it for himself too. There are things that I will need to do.
Speaker 1:Well, and even when you and I were talking earlier, I did have the distinct thought of you know, we need people who can understand, who can, who have spent the time, because they love it, to learn about these other denominations and these other branches of Christianity, so that when the physical gathering happens, you're like, oh yeah, let's sit and talk about this. I know exactly like, and you and you can even then help educate me who? I don't know any of that right now and you can sit and lead. You're telling me about how you want to do these Bible studies. You can sit and we can do Bible studies together and you literally can be that bridge that the Lord can use and that, like, I don't know, I don't know if that's what he's officially going to use you for, but personally, when you were telling me that, that was the thought, I was like, oh my gosh, cindy's going to be a bridge. That is my hope, right, she's going to help. That is my hope.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I have had people very conscious that I am a guest at their table. Yes, they have graciously invited me into their home and so if people ask me questions, I am happy to share Right, but I'm not there to convert that school.
Speaker 2:I am there to listen and learn Exactly, and that has been a really very important to me and it has been at least for me, that has been the best way to do things and I've had so much fun learning about my friends. What do you believe? How you know, how do you work? How does how does God speak to you? Right, right, I know how he speaks to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know how he speaks or even like how we've been taught, like the burning in the bosom or the. You know the ways that we kind of frame it within LDS culture and LDS doctrine and stuff to hear it described in a different way from a different person, I, or I should say like a different religion or denomination, that that's cool.
Speaker 2:It really is, because I've learned a lot of things, I think, as far as how, how do you hear god? Yeah, sometimes that can be really difficult for us as lds people, right, because I think when you say like a burning in the bosom, so I mean, well, I've never felt that way.
Speaker 1:That's just heartburn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, what does that mean? I know what is it. The thing I have learned the most is that God has already spoken to us. In fact, we have several thousand pages of scripture where his word is there so often. If you want to hear God, my biggest piece of advice would be go open your scriptures. Yeah, is there, yeah, so often. If you want to hear God, my biggest piece of advice would be go open your scriptures. Yeah, read it, because he is speaking to you right there. Yeah, if you have some sort of a, some kind of inspiration you feel is coming from God, go open up your scriptures and make sure it lines up with that. Very cool If it's lining up with the scriptures. If it's lining up with the word of God, go open up your scriptures and make sure it lines up with that. Very cool If it's lining up with the scriptures. If it's lining up with the word of God, then you can be pretty sure that's God speaking to you. If it's something that is nowhere in the scriptures, that's probably not coming from God.
Speaker 1:Right, well. And I think when we say that, we also mean like, not that God's going to tell you in the scriptures, go to this bible college. But he's gonna say we know that, we know in the scriptures it says all good things come from god, right, right. And so you? Then you have to sit and ponder okay, is this a good thing?
Speaker 2:is it, is it is it?
Speaker 1:am I keeping my covenant still? Is it allowing me to still?
Speaker 2:do these things and then you.
Speaker 1:You then you can make that decision of, yes, this is right or no, this, this isn't right. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, is this good? Is it true, right, exactly, correct. So I think those things are important and that is something I think I've learned. Yeah, more, yeah, to understand. Wait a minute, you know what? I can hear him really well by just opening up and reading the scriptures, that's amazing, so I really love that.
Speaker 1:You keep talking about, you know, unity within God's people, within believers of Christ, and you and I were talking earlier about how the world is divided in so many ways and how even the media and everybody is making us feel like Christians are outdated or that any you know, any kind of religion is not needed, all of that stuff and we just keep seeing this division between churches and between everybody in general. But you've had this amazing opportunity to really unite and learn skills and have experiences when it comes to uniting and reach, extending both hands. So what do you think? Or I should say, what has the spirit and what has taught? Has Christ taught you about reaching across the other aisle genuinely and being able to see the differences but still know we're all children of God and unite rather than allowing our differences to divide us. What have you learned?
Speaker 2:I think the first thing, the best thing to do first, is to listen. That's not my natural, you know usually it's not mine either.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm a talker.
Speaker 2:Right, and then to ask questions what do you mean by that? So? And then I would say, to try to find a place of common ground and also, I think, to acknowledge that there are theological differences. To whoever it is you're talking to and say I can see that we probably will not agree on this view of God. You believe in the triune God. I believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, that they are three distinct beings. I can see we probably will not agree on that, however, and then move forward to a place that you, you can agree and and also just say to them and that's okay, we, it's okay that we are different in that way, um, and and it's totally okay that you know you, you may worry about my salvation, right, and I may worry about yours right, but I at least.
Speaker 1:they're worrying about your salvation. Like that's actually kind of cool that they're actually worried about you and you're standing with God, and it was a sweet thing I took last semester.
Speaker 2:I had it was systematic theology, part two, second part, and I took it from a professor Her name is Mary Vandenberg, who's also become a really good friend. She's amazing, she's amazing, she's brilliant. But we talked about in theology, we talked about the doctrine of predestination and election, right, right and so what predestination means for, for people who don't know, is that? And? And I will say there is, you can, if you read in the bible, in the new testament. I mean, there is.
Speaker 1:I would say, it kind of really heavily implies a lot of yeah there is absolutely grounds for this theological doctrine for both predestination, predestination and an election yeah, so predestination is that god created certain people.
Speaker 2:He predestined certain people for salvation. There's single predestination, which means that god created certain people for salvation and the rest he will pass over right. And there's double predestination, which is essentially certain people are created for salvation and certain people are not. They're essentially created for damnation. There is theological grounds for how they are viewing that. Yeah, so there's, you know, no judgment here.
Speaker 2:Right, but I knew that going into this class, in-person class, I knew that I obviously with my religious beliefs for them they would consider that I was not one of the elect. So I was really nervous about this class, what it would be like. It was really interesting and my professor, who I dearly love, knows my religious beliefs, and many of the class did too. But anyway, she talked about election and the thing that she stressed and she stressed this throughout our class this semester is that she said to to those who were of her religious denomination. She said we must be very careful in decide, in thinking that we know who is elect and who is not.
Speaker 2:She said the thing that I tell people who are worried about their relatives is, she said, we're in God's hands and there are no better hands that you can be in, and I love that. I have used that too because I, honestly, when she said that, that spoke to me. We are in God's hands, all of us. She was very much throughout the semester Right, do not, we can't, none of us can, make judgment on who is elect and who is not. And she said I believe that God's net, the gospel, that net of gathering is much bigger than we think it is, and I really, really appreciated that.
Speaker 2:She was so kind, so considerate of me and I love her dearly for that. Yeah, dearly, because it was just, she was so thoughtful and coming from this amazing, brilliant woman, yeah, it was just a lovely. It was a lovely experience and afterwards I just went up, I was teary and I just hugged her and said thank you so much. That was wonderful.
Speaker 1:And you know we, we were able to, just, you know, connect and bond and feel the spirit, because the spirit crosses all of that.
Speaker 2:It does. It does so. So it has been a wonderful thing and I know that for some of my professors they were much more open than others, but none were disrespectful and all were good and kind to me. So super grateful for that experience that I have had with those Christian people and it makes me so hopeful. I think that is one of the things that I have felt more than anything. I have felt like this that the Lord is working through people and we don't need to be worried. He's got this. He knows what he's doing. This is not his first rodeo.
Speaker 1:He's got it. It's my first rodeo, it's ours.
Speaker 2:It's not his. He's got this and we know that Jesus Christ is our savior. We can trust him to do what he's supposed to do, which is to save people. Sometimes we think that's our job, that's not my job, that's his job. I can love people, he can save people.
Speaker 2:At the end of John, the book of John, the gospel of John, after Jesus has died, he's been resurrected. The disciples have already seen him, but he's not with them. And there's this little story they're out in a boat and they've been fishing the disciples, the apostles. They've been fishing all night and they've been fishing the disciples, the apostles. They've been fishing all night and they've caught nothing. And they look out there they see a man on the shore and he says to them cast your net on the right side. And they do, and they pull it up and it is bursting with fish and Peter realizes this is the savior and he gets out of the boat and he runs to the shore.
Speaker 2:Now here's the part that's so interesting. Jesus already has a fire going, he's already got fish and he's already got bread. And then he says to Peter bring the fish that you have, but he does not need our fish or our bread, he's got it. He's got it. You know, I mean people will say that God has no hands, but your hands. That is not true. Right, he can do his own work, but he invites us to participate in it. Right, he gives us nudgings, he gives us whisperings. He may give us super strong promptings, maybe a voice, maybe not, but if we will have our hearts open to us, he will invite us in to participate with him in his salvific work. But it's his work. It's his work. It's the hardest thing I've had to learn in my life to let go and and say okay, here you go, I'm gonna, which is what you've literally had to do going to this college.
Speaker 1:You've had to let go and be like, okay, I am going to be the minority, I am going to be who even knows what, right, but I trust you to get me through this. And it's so cool to see he's like, yeah, here you go. Here's all these amazing experiences. It was still very, very hard, it was very trying, but I think when you come out on the other side, that refinement is going to be so beautiful and it's going to be you're. You are literally now. You've been sharpened, you're the tool that he has sharpened.
Speaker 2:That's right. Yeah, that's my prayer. Oh, you're going to be fine, right, but I had to do that with the marriage too, right? Yeah, in both cases two different ways that he spoke to me yeah, and in both cases you relinquish control, yes, and you move forward and it's been a wonderful journey with my husband. But that doesn't mean that there haven't been, you know, we haven't had to rub each other, of course, the sharp edges off of each other right.
Speaker 1:They say iron sharpens iron right but I don't know about that.
Speaker 2:He's gotten me. I mean I can just kind of out there. So you know, bless his heart, it's so amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow. Well, I don't. I don't have any other questions, so if you do, you have any other final thoughts or would you mind just leaving us with the testimony?
Speaker 2:I'd love to leave you with the testimony. Okay, yeah, oh, I just am so grateful for my Savior, jesus Christ. I think it's interesting. We live in a fallen world. We are fallen people. You know, we are the natural man. Our nature is rebellion. It's to push against God, right. And yet if we open ourselves up just a little bit, I have found that the Holy Spirit comes rushing in with all of its power and just turns us toward the Savior and gets us on that right, that right path.
Speaker 2:And I I think the older I get, the more I know how much grace I need to go back into the presence of the Father. And and I am so grateful for him, for my Savior, for his sacrifice, for I think about the cross and what he endured and it's horrific, and that he did it and did not call down the legions of angels that he could have. Yeah, that he went through it. Yes, that he suffered, that he bled, that he died, that he went through it. Yes, that he suffered, that he bled, that he died, that he rose again, that we can do all of that because of him, that we, we can have a resurrected body, that we can enter into the divine presence of our father in heaven. Through him I feel such gratitude and I think also that, because of the atonement that somehow everything will be okay, all of the the hurts, all of the imperfections, all of the sin, all of the fallenness of, of ourselves and of the world, it will all be healed, completely healed and made whole. And I I'm overwhelmed when I think about that and the gratitude that I feel it's difficult to express.
Speaker 2:I often think about what it would be like to enter into the presence of our Father. You know, there are just a few places in scripture where we read about it. And in Isaiah I am undone, I am a man with unclean lips. You read in Revelation in every situation Moses, he says now I know that I am nothing, which thing I had never before supposed To enter into. The presence of the Father is just so awe-inspiring and so huge, and you know that you are not worthy. But through the Savior, through him, we are able to go in, because he makes us worthy.
Speaker 2:I am overwhelmed with gratitude. Yeah, yeah, just love and gratitude. So I guess that's my testimony is that we have this Savior, who he incarnated and came to earth as a person. He knows what it's like to have this body. He can. Because of that, he can relate to us. He is there for us and if you don't hear him, you can open up his word and read what he has to say. It's all there, it's all there and the love is there. So I guess that's my testimony is that he is real. Our Father in heaven is real. The Holy Spirit is there to guide us, to lead us, to comfort us, and we are blessed. Lead us to comfort us and we are blessed, and that's my testimony in the name of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen. Thank you, cindy, for spending this time with me tonight. It's been really amazing, so I hope you have a wonderful evening. Thank you, thanks again for tuning into More Than Coincidence, remembering Jesus Christ in your Story. Please follow us on social media or share us with a friend. If you have an experience you'd like to share, feel free to reach out to morethancoincidencerememberhim at gmailcom. I can't wait to hear all of the amazing memories you all have of our Savior. See you next time.