More than Coincidence: Remembering Jesus Christ in Your Story

Angels Around Us and Growing Around Our Grief with Zac and Tiffany

• Lily • Season 1 • Episode 13

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Grief often arrives unannounced, carrying a weight that bows our shoulders and tests our hearts. It's in these moments that the light of faith and the strength of community can pierce through the darkness. Join us as Tiffany and Zach open up about their poignant journey through the loss of their amazing daughter Sadie. Their powerful story unravels the complexities of sorrow and the resilience of the human spirit, all under the watchful eye of a compassionate God.

As our conversation weaves through the tapestry of Tiffany and Zach's trials, it reveals how kindness can manifest in the most unexpected ways. In particular, their family's encounter with President Thomas S. Monson, Sadie's favorite singer Hillary Weeks,  and the embrace of their community testifies to the power and necessity of earth-side angels.

Amid the rawness of their ordeal, Tiffany and Zach impart wisdom on embracing grief not as a dark shadow to be outrun but as a constant companion that shapes our growth. Their experience champions the idea seeking help from every available option - God, family, friends, and licensed professionals. This episode isn't just a tribute to a cherished life; it's a lantern for anyone navigating the rugged terrain of loss.

Scriptures Shared:

Doctrine and Covenants 58: 2-5 
Link: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/58?lang=eng

Doctrine and Covenants 84: 88
Link: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/84?lang=eng#p88

Matthew 7: 9-11
Link: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/nt/matt/7?lang=eng#p9

3 Nephi 14: 9-11 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/3-ne/14?lang=eng#p9 

Please reach out to me if you are interested in sharing your story! I would LOVE to hear from you. :)

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**Transcripts available on website!

Lily:

Hello everyone and welcome to, More Than Coincidence, Remembering Jesus Christ in your Story. As the author and finisher of our faith, our Savior writes personal experiences into each of our lives which can later strengthen, empower and bring us peace upon reflection. This podcast is dedicated to sharing these anchoring memories from everyone's unique stories in order to collectively remember and testify of the reality of Jesus Christ and His presence in our lives. I'm your host, Lily, and I'm very excited to share these experiences together. Okay, so today we have Tiffany and Zach joining us. Thanks for coming, guys.

Tiffany:

Thanks, Lily.

Lily:

Thanks for having us. Would you guys mind just introducing yourselves a little bit?

Tiffany:

I'm Tiffany, I'm 43 years young and been married to Zach. For what are we going on? 22 years, I think 22 years Nice. We've got five kids, all girls and living the dream, yeah.

Zac:

I'm Zach. I'm Tiffany's husband. That's how I introduce myself, because everybody knows who she is.

Lily:

She is pretty awesome, thank you.

Zac:

We have beautiful daughters.

Tiffany:

Girl dad.

Zac:

Girl dad, we specialize. Do whatever the kids are doing. Right now we're doing cheer.

Tiffany:

Our hobbies are what the kids are doing.

Zac:

Dance, paying tuition for college. We're in the middle of it. Relatable.

Lily:

That's awesome. Yeah Well, I appreciate you guys taking the time to be here. What memories do you guys have that you reflect on in your life, or themes that remind you of our Savior Jesus Christ and anchor you to Him?

Tiffany:

Well, I suppose a foundational experience for our faith, as President Nelson recently told us to think Celestial, was when our daughter Sadie she's our oldest, she would be 20 this year Back in 2008, at the age of five, she was diagnosed with a rare brainstem tumor that's referred to as a DIPG. The way that the tumor is made up and the location makes it so there's no adequate treatment or cure. So we knew pretty quick that we wouldn't have a lot of time left with her here on this earth. They usually say six to nine months from diagnosis is when they'll pass away, and we were blessed to have 16 more months with her. So she passed away in June of 2009, at the age of six.

Tiffany:

We had trials. Everyone has their ups and downs. Everyone has their mountains. We had some before that experience, but I think since that time, a lot of perspective has changed. What is important has changed.

Tiffany:

As you mentioned earlier, just being anchored in Christ, being the finisher of our faith, takes on a whole new meaning. When you go through something like we did, we have a lot of faith. It doesn't mean that we still, 14 years later, I believe, don't still have hard days. I saw a graphic a couple years ago that it was a big ball of like a black circle in a jar and the perspective people have is that our grief shrinks in the jar. And then it showed this other graphic. That is like the grief stays the same but the jar grows bigger. And it's just that lesson, that the grief doesn't go away, but we grow around our grief. And so I think, as we're focused on the Savior as we're talking, and our Father in Heaven I know Zach has some things that he'll mention, but I think it just gave me the perspective of, first of all, being a parent.

Tiffany:

I can't say I haven't been able to say I'm grateful for that trial. I know a lot of people say I'm so thankful for this trial and I'm not. I would hope that I would have learned those lessons that we learned through Sadie's battle and sense in some way in my life. But I am grateful for what I've learned. Like I said, it has made things very much put in perspective of what matters and I also, being a parent, I don't feel like Heavenly Father gives us trials just to see how we react and that could just be me. I'm not like that's the doctrine of Tiffany, right?

Lily:

But I do feel like God has a sense of humor, and I say that in my life, right?

Tiffany:

All the time. Sense of humor for sure. Yeah, I feel like being a parent, like we're told that our Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother love us more than we could ever comprehend, and we see our kids and we love them so much. And to know that we love them so minimally compared to our Heavenly Father. So I just think, would I be giving my girls a trial just to see how they'll respond to it? Right? Don't feel like that's how it works, right. So I feel like this is a mortal experience and I don't feel like, you know, heavenly Father gave Sadie cancer to see how we would react to that, obviously, or anything like that.

Tiffany:

I do believe he's in control of our mortality and how all of that plays out. But we saw too many tender mercies in the experience and a lot of times, I think in life and in our struggles we don't see those tender mercies in the moments, through a lot of reflection, even years later, that things will pop in your head or you'll meet somebody and have a remembrance of something you experienced, and so we saw a lot of tender mercies along the way and in reflection and I think we just realized that life is going to have the potential to change very fast and some of that can be through our own doing. Some of that is just out of our hands. So with Sadie's experience, I think we have just united strong as a family. It's not to say we haven't had trial since that happened, but when we really have that mindset to think celestial it brings that big picture focus of what's waiting for us, what we need to be doing here on this earth and on our time to prepare to be with Sadie again.

Lily:

Yeah.

Tiffany:

And again, I don't. I don't feel like commandments or guidelines are meant to be, things that are meant to weigh us down or be difficult. I feel like they're meant to guide us and ease our burdens and I've seen that play out over the years since Sadie passed away and just what we need to be doing, that, even the stuff that seemingly seems small, that will be foundational to keep us united as a family and and bring us that wonderful blessing of seeing her again. I love that. So there's my favorite scripture from I think it's DNC 58, 2 through 5, and I always loved those, that passage of scripture. But then it took on a whole different meaning when we went through what we did with Sadie. And what is it? Which one is it? Dnc 58, 2 through 5.

Lily:

For very lay, I say unto you blessed is he that keepeth my commandments, whether in life or in death, and he that is faithful in tribulation. The reward of the same is greater. In the kingdom of heaven, you cannot behold with your natural eyes for the present time the design of your God concerning those things which shall come here after and the glory which shall follow after much tribulation. Or after much tribulation come the blessings wherefore the day cometh that ye shall be crowned with much glory. The hour is not yet, but is my hand.

Tiffany:

Yeah. So that's my all-time favorite passage is just the, the hope that what we've experienced and and even the days we have now, like I said, growing around our grief the days are fewer and far between, where it just hits you like a punch. You know that the grief, but it still comes right. So those those passages just give a lot of hope and that I can't comprehend what it's gonna be like and I don't understand a lot of. You know the wise, but someday it'll only make sense and it's gonna be a, like to say, an epic reunion.

Lily:

I think, it would be no one.

Tiffany:

You guys, I think it's gonna be an epic reunion, yeah but I feel like I've been jobbering a lot, so go ahead. Why don't you? What one site do you got?

Zac:

I think that's great. I'm just so when maybe a little bit more about the story around Sadie when she was diagnosed and we were given six months to a year from when she was diagnosed to when they thought she might pass away. Even with all of the treatment they could provide, the fatality rate is 100% for the tumor that she had.

Zac:

So, right at the outset we didn't have the odds in our favor, and so we went through all the treatments. Really early on we asked Sadie, knowing what was coming our way as a family. We asked her what do you want? Yeah and when you ask a five year old.

Lily:

Like what do they even yeah?

Zac:

what do you want? Like yeah.

Lily:

I want to be with my family. Yeah, you have six months what do you want?

Zac:

yeah, and for her one thing.

Tiffany:

I will see real quick. You can edit this part. Yeah, I didn't really describe Sadie to you but as a five-year-old and being your, being your first kid, you don't know any different, right, right. But she was just wise, beyond her years, at at five, her love of the gospel, her love of the prophet, and especially into her battle. She drew so many pictures that were like gospel related, yeah, the temple.

Tiffany:

She drew a couple pictures of herself with Jesus and she wouldn't let us know what she was drawing till she was done and those were, like those are some of my most prized possessions to this day, because I feel like it was her way of bearing her testimony to us that she had a personal, she has a personal relationship with the Savior as like a friend, you know, and so, as sorry is that, just reminded me, as that was introducing, like her wishes that is good context to have, so you know what she would ask the kind yeah, like she just and, and and it's not to knock any of our other kids or any other kid like a five-year-old, like you said.

Tiffany:

What does a five-year-old wish for right? Yeah, so sorry, go ahead context is good.

Zac:

So her, her wishes were one was to go to Disneyland. That was one wish. The second one she wanted a pink Jeep like one of the little drive around like a little power wheels, yeah those are fine and so far I'm like, okay, I'm aligned with that, we can do that.

Zac:

And then the third one really came out of left field. She wanted to meet. The president of the church at the time was president Thomas S Monson and I thought, okay, well, I don't know him personally. I know who he is, but it's not like in my phone I can't just call him and set up a meeting, right. So Tiff at the time was had a really good blog, was just emotionally getting feelings out, sharing what was happening, and it was a really efficient way to share what was happening in our household for family and friends that wanted to know. But it was too hard for us to keep everybody up to date day to day, right so she put that in her blog, blog Sadie's three wishes make a wish foundation, which I just love them.

Zac:

They said no problem, we'll get you guys to Disney World and fly to Florida all expenses paid. Yeah, the pink Jeep. I had a colleague at work, just somebody that came in, I think he put three or four hundred dollars on my desk and he said go get her Jeep. And I just thought wow, thank you. And the the third one came about kind of in a strange way. A couple months went by after this blog post and no, it was just weeks.

Tiffany:

Was it just weeks okay?

Zac:

maybe it was like a couple weeks and she said this I'm president Monson secretary, and we've just had a number of different phone calls coming in asking if you, if president Monson, would meet with your daughter and we'd like to schedule a time to have you come in. I thought, well, that's interesting.

Tiffany:

Kevin Bacon like seven.

Zac:

Six steps to Kevin Bacon like somebody, somebody, so people are calling mission presidents or people who serve with president Monson when he was their mission president yep so we we had the opportunity to to go meet with him.

Zac:

To this day we have the picture of our family with our next two oldest children, and Sadie and Tiffany, with president Monson in his office. He gave us a little tour and he met with us for an hour. He seemed like he had all the time in the world for us. We thought maybe it would just be a quick hey, five minute shake hands, maybe maybe do a blessing if we're fortunate. But he spent a full hour with us, just asked how we were doing and we gave him. He at the end of the of the visit he just leaned back in his chair and he put his hands on his desk and he looked at me. He said well, should we give your daughter a blessing?

Zac:

you know in kind of that tone, yep just very direct and I said, I said that would be great. So we, I anointed, anointed her, he gave her a blessing and in that blessing this is just to kind of set up the rest, for the rest of this there was a scripture and in my mind I was thinking I'm here with the president of the church, I have as much faith as I can have, and when you read the scriptures and hear about the, the father who tells the Savior, he's the Savior asked him do you believe? And he says help thou. My unbelief, that was really the state of mind that I had. But I thought I have as much faith as I have and I'm bringing that.

Zac:

And if anybody can heal her, if anybody's living good enough to heal her, it's this man. And we laid our hands on our head and he gave a blessing and I was waiting for him to say something like you will be healed or your treatments will go well, the doctors will know exactly what to do, something. You know, and I didn't get that, but I got this and this was fulfilled. He said that. That he said, for I will go before your face, I will be on your right hand and on your left and my spirit shall be in your hearts and my angels round about you To bear you up. That scripture was put into that blessing and it was such a comfort for me at the time to know You're gonna go through this trial, the Lord's, whatever outcome will happen.

Tiffany:

We do not have any control over that, but there will be help, there will be support, there will be guidance in direction and throughout the rest of the experience we had that one thing sorry to edit in With the president monston thing too is she drew, she loved to paint, yeah, and that was she liked to give people paintings as presents and she, she decided to paint present months in a picture and it's like apps, like kind of random.

Tiffany:

Yeah, yeah, five-year-old picture you, but beautiful yeah so he meld it, you know, and and he meld a letter back to her Like a couple weeks later, and then, when she ended up passing away, he also wrote a letter, like they were like little pen pals, you know. So it was just like a neat testament to.

Lily:

The ministering to the one is the one.

Tiffany:

Yes we with the blessing, with the Mail. It was just like and to know Sadie, to us to know she was very Reserved till she got to know you, especially older people. Yeah, but in his office and and even at the end she kind of leaned in and like he had his little hand, like Put on her shoulder, like she felt very comfortable and yeah, again to know her's like that. It was like Just to see that was like whoa, okay, she like she, she felt something you know right.

Tiffany:

So it was just neat, as Zach was saying, with those experiences, that we really felt like in a church of millions that the Example of the Savior was emulated through through the Prophet. They're looking out for the one, so and there were.

Zac:

I would just say, for those that are going through something like that, let people help you. That was one thing that we learned is this the way that the Savior can minister to us is through other people. We'd have people show up and mow the lawn and we had somebody replace our dishwasher. We were washing dishes by hand, and so the word like they put together a little fundraiser and had our dishwasher Replace, just little things like that, but all of these angels were just helping us along the way through this experience. It was such, a, you know, powerful experience and as she progressed, or as she started to decline, as we got kind of towards the end, I remember holding her and there with her type of tumor. As it grows it shuts off the functions to the rest of your body, so you slowly lose the ability to walk your fingers, your hands get really hard, like they're not mobile you know, so she couldn't draw or talk, she lost speech and the only thing she had left Towards the end was the ability to blink her eyes and she could move.

Zac:

she had a little bit of movement in her eyes and I remember just Knowing that we're kind of getting close to the end here we don't know when that day is going to come and I was holding her and Asked her I I said, sadie, are you Ready to be done, are you ready to stop fighting? And she Moved her eyes right to left like nope, and I said but are you Ready to go live with Heavenly Father? And her eyes went up and down and I thought, wow, what a what just like a courageous fighter, you know.

Zac:

So she, she fought all the way to the end. She Was just such a courageous little soul. She left pictures everywhere. We found them later Tucked in like, you know, couch cushions and under the couch and in her closet. So we, you know, went through that experience with her the day before she passed away. One of her favorite artists and this is another angel Called she loves Hillary weeks, yeah, and so that's like all we listen to, yep, I think at the time Hillary had like one album or maybe two, so there were only like 16 songs.

Zac:

Now there's been a lot more. And we got a phone call and it was Hillary week. She said, my, was it her brother? I think it was her brother that had found Sadie story and call her and said hey, there's this little girl and she loves your music. And Hillary called and said do you think I could just come over this morning and and just maybe Meet her and like. And she didn't know that we're like, yeah, at this point Sadie was on hospice and so the timing I mean Hillary could have called us the next day or a week later, not knowing that maybe she had already passed away, but she called us the morning before she passed away and asked if she could come over. She came over and played a couple songs and it was just a sweet experience for Sadie to death that mercy and Attend her mercy for her. So she came and played that song and it was just really.

Zac:

That's really touching really powerful and she, she played it. States.

Tiffany:

Sadie's favorite song. That wasn't one that's real common. It's called take me there, and she Just really loved that song, and so we asked Hillary if she'd be up All right playing that at Sadie's funeral, and she did so so he, he sends help and I could feel that Throughout the experience there were some, for me, some personal revelatory experiences.

Zac:

I Remember driving home with this like heavy on your mind all the time, like you go to work and you have to be happy but you're sad inside, but you're smiling to people and they don't function yeah yeah, and it with what I do. It's a very people related kind of job and you can't really like break down, so you're.

Zac:

Yeah you know, battling through the day. But then on the way home, was a time for me to just like Ponder and pray and and I remember having this very powerful feeling that. Well, two thoughts. One thought was a reminder that Sadie was not mine, that she is his and I'm just to do the best I can as her earthly dad, and that was a good reminder for me to remember that he's in control and it's okay. And the second reminder was but you're sealed together as a family and you have that promised blessing that your family can be together forever, and that was a really great comfort. So there were people coming into our lives. There was a lot of support and help, these angels coming to bless us. There was revelatory experiences that were very personal and deep and powerful and since we're passing, those have continued. For me it's helpful to remember some of those experiences.

Zac:

After she passed away a few was it. A couple months later After she passed, I came home from a church assignment and Tiff had not been looking well. Her eyes weren't really tracking. She looked very tired and exhausted and I came home and she was cutting something like some onions on the cutting board. I said why don't you go sit down, I'll finish making dinner. And she sat down on the couch and just fell over on her side and started having a seizure and I was like, are you kidding me?

Tiffany:

Like okay. I totally faked it. It was very real, it was pretty real. I don't remember a lot of that time, to be honest, yeah.

Zac:

When I first saw somebody have a seizure. I thought, well, this is weird because my wife is pretty healthy. So I called 911, called my mom. She came over to watch our two younger children and I remember being in the ambulance on the way to the hospital, thinking, feeling a bit like yeah, I'm pretty sure I just went through something pretty heavy I'm still working my way through it and this just doesn't feel very fair.

Zac:

It's really that didn't feel fair and this does not feel fair. And as we're going to the hospital and Tiff doesn't remember any of this because she was totally catatonic we got to the hospital non-responsive. They were doing the reflex tests and just nothing other than breathing no response, and so that night we got admitted into the hospital. I was online, of course, doing the WebMD, trying to get my doctorate.

Tiffany:

Don't do that University of Google.

Zac:

Don't do that. And working in finance, I'm thinking, ok, how does this all play out? And said 80% of the time, once people start having seizures, they never stop having them. It's financially terrible. Just all these negative things were swirling in my mind and she had the next day. We did more tests. They did a spinal tap, they did a CAT scan. They were just trying to find where in her body what's causing this?

Lily:

Because she's healthy and she's really active.

Zac:

Yeah, and that was refreshing. They'd come back and say she's pretty healthy, she's pretty active and there's nothing wrong with her body. And I said something's wrong because she's had three more seizures today. She kept having them and so one night this was, I think, night two or night three we were there for a few days as they're doing these tests and after you have her seizure your body's totally exhausted and just completely wiped out. So it was like she would rest and then her body would tense up again and she'd have another seizure. So they said we're going to do I think it's called an EEG. They put all these wires to your head.

Zac:

And then they said we're going to connect all these wires to her head and then we are going to do some light blasts to make her have a seizure to cause one yeah.

Zac:

And I'm like I don't want to cause them, I want them to stop. So they did the EEG. They caused her to have a seizure and I'm like, well, I hope that we can figure out something in her brain is not working. And that night I received a phone call. It was from Elder Michael T Ringwood. He said I understood. He said I received a call from President Monson's office that and understand that your wife is in the hospital and I was calling to see if I could come assist with the blessing. Would that be okay? I said well, yeah.

Tiffany:

President Monson's office no.

Zac:

Yeah, I don't look great.

Lily:

I don't even find out.

Zac:

I don't know and I didn't, he didn't know. He said I don't get calls from President Monson's office ever, but you're, I think we were in his area, we lived in his area, so he came to the hospital that night. We gave her another blessing and I tip, was kind of out of it and I should remember thinking the whole time of coming back to President Monson's blessing, of angels coming and that brought me great comfort, just knowing I'm still here.

Lily:

I'm still watching?

Zac:

Yeah, I'm still paying attention.

Lily:

Yep.

Zac:

And the next morning the doctors came back. They said we can't find anything wrong with your wife. There's nothing wrong in her brain, there's no tumors, there's nothing. Wow, has there been anything traumatic that's happened recently? Wow, I was like, well, we could have started with that. Yes, and I shared our experience with Sadie and the neurologist. Thank you, I was going to say, neuro doctor.

Lily:

Neuroologist.

Zac:

He said we think that grief, when people go through traumatic experiences, that they're grief can build up inside and then just manifest itself through a seizure. And so here the Lord's like helping me find an answer. And I said nope, that doesn't even make sense. How can people feel grief and have a seizure? You just cry when you feel grief. You don't do this. And I said I think I would like a second opinion. So they gave me a second opinion.

Tiffany:

We went to another doctor and he said and he was in a former bishop, if I remember right.

Zac:

Yes.

Tiffany:

So he had a really neat perspective on the gospel side of things that he could tie into his amazing mind of neurology as well.

Zac:

So another angel in the story.

Zac:

And he said what you don't understand is you have the spiritual stuff intact. You understand what kind of what's happening where your daughter is, what's going on on that side, that you'll be with her again, that it's not the end, that we are eternal beings and we continue on after this life, he said. But what you don't understand is that your wise body is hardwired to these kids, right, and every time she's tucking kids in, she's used to tucking in three kids and she's only tucking in two. Every time she sets the table she wants, she thinks she needs to set the table for three kids, not two. Every time she's buckling seatbelts. There's these constant reminders throughout the day and her body is something's not right. I'm missing one of my children.

Lily:

Yep, it's like instinctual Right. Deep, deep down Right. Yep.

Zac:

And so that helped us to go through some some bereavement counseling and help that we needed and Tiff had angels through that experience.

Tiffany:

Yeah, and we had a great, great hospice team that had counseling as a part of the team if we needed it, and you know you're going to go through the grieving process. But I thought you know I have Zach and if I need to utilize I think her name was Kay then, yeah, we'll totally use that. So I thought I wasn't like trying to push down any motion or anything during that time but it wasn't enough.

Tiffany:

Right and all to this day, 100% vouch for amazing minds out there in the counseling world who help with anxieties, who help with grief and any other things that we go to a counselor for. Because we've even seen with our kids, especially the older two, they've had anxieties that have manifested more towards kind of the puberty ages of like you know that they have these. One would be like worrying about something happening to our family.

Lily:

Yeah, just things they have to process because they lived it too Exactly.

Tiffany:

Exactly, and so we were have after having that help for me, right, I was always very mindful of telling them. If you ever feel like it's not enough for you to talk to mom and dad, right, there are people that can. They're trained to help you with that, and so we've utilized wonderful counselors for the kids over the years that have, just when they've needed it, have helped, been helpful with any worries and anxieties that you know. I think we forget sometimes that it's a family experience, right, because they were little, I mean live was for her and say you're best friends.

Lily:

I was going to say that that's still kind of enough to know. Yeah, my best friend is gone, and then I have shared a room with her and she's not here.

Tiffany:

Yeah, and to this day, you know, live talks about her as her best friend and they have an amazing relationship Even now. And then Sam was to yeah, she turned to on Sadie's make a wish trip, I think and so she has pictures and memories and she remembers things. I'm surprised she remembers, but she was teeny and so. And then we've had two kids since. They don't have those memories with Sadie, and so we've really tried to follow their lead on when they need any extra help and I'm just so grateful, like I said all about, for counseling. 100% helps you get back to be the best version of yourself. You can be Right. And again, I don't remember a lot about the seizures, yeah, but that's what got me through. Like, if I remember right, they slowly kind of just dwindled.

Zac:

Yeah, after we left the hospital and after you started breathing, counseling, the seizures just stopped. Yeah, and thankfully.

Lily:

Yeah, well, I can't even, but I think I think sometimes we kind of put a lot of lip service towards the mental, emotional and spiritual and physical connection. But I don't, it's real, it is, it's so real and things that I've learned from my families, because my brother, you know, you guys know it has a lot of medical issues, mr Miracle, I know there were so many things with him that.

Lily:

Yeah that you just you don't know until after the fact. And and I learned that grief and healing isn't linear so you might think that, oh, I'm doing great, oh, I'm doing great. And then, like you said, it just comes at you one day and you're like I thought I was over this, yeah. Or you, you see something and it kind of triggers you and you're like, oh, I didn't know that that was a thing, right. So I'm so glad that you guys are talking about reaching out and getting help, because God gave people gifts.

Tiffany:

Yeah, for sure.

Lily:

Those gifts is to be able to sit down and and help others in this way. Yeah, and I think when you go to the right, when you go to the right people, it can your testament to that, that it works and that it's really good for you.

Tiffany:

Yeah, and just recognizing we grieve different, yeah, so we we look and make sure you know each kid's going to grieve different. Right, zach and I completely grieve different. I believe I'm. I still go to the cemetery frequently with holidays and things because I feel like I'm still taking care of her in some capacity. Your way, yep, you know Zach is very much a builder. Would you say you keep busy when, like, when, like channeling those emotions to like a project, project, yep, would you say that's accurate.

Zac:

Yeah, after she passed away, I built a fence around my house by myself.

Lily:

I am protecting my family. Here is my fence.

Tiffany:

Yeah, and I think even you know you say that and I think we've talked about it before. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is a dad. He's the protector, Right? He's the fixer, and that was a situation he couldn't fix. And so I think it just manifests it's like I'm going to protect and fix everything else I can.

Lily:

Yep, because I, you come home and you're like, wow, the door doesn't creak, yeah, you fix this over here, so I'll notice A lot of home projects it's making sense now that I think about it.

Tiffany:

So I'll notice, like, if we call it an angel groceries approaching, like the day of her passing or birthday, and he'll build shelves in the garage or yeah, and it's awesome that he has that out Right. So we grieve in different ways as parents, as individuals, like you were saying with your brother, like the way you've handled that's probably very different from your sisters or those kinds of experience. So I think it's very important and and that can attest to this too along the way, like people have good intentions of saying things that are meant to be comfort, you know, a comfort and doesn't always come across that way.

Tiffany:

But I don't think anything's like malicious or ill intended, but the things that you know we'll find comfort in and and like you, you made a great point. Like the, yeah, we think celestial, but that doesn't keep us from having hard days, and so to acknowledge that it's okay to have help, it's okay to you know I'd go as far as to promote that there's medicines out there to that can be helpful, just just different resources.

Tiffany:

I should say that that can help us just day to day, live our best life and improve, and so be, sensitive to other people, that there's no timeline.

Lily:

Right.

Tiffany:

Don't expect. It's been 14 years that we're over it. You know we're not, we're not going to be over it. We will take comfort when we see her again, right, but we're, we're never going to be over it. So these people out there that think you should, you should be doing better or yeah, but everyone's just be patient with people. Everyone's deals with grief different.

Lily:

I was better yesterday. Yeah, I'm a hot mess today. That's fine, you know so Right.

Zac:

And the greatest resources, the gospel.

Tiffany:

Oh, absolutely. I mean, there are temples been such a wonderful comfort for us as well, but it's not insurance against hard times.

Zac:

People are gonna have challenges Once. When we got married, I wasn't expecting that as something that's gonna come our way, you know yeah for sure.

Zac:

But I will say that my testimony is that his love is unconditional. Wherever people are in their lives, if they're battling an addiction or loss or divorce, whatever challenge is coming, his love is available and unconditional always. You reference that scripture in Matthew where he says whom? If his son asked bread, will he give him a stone. Or if he asked a fish, he will give him a serpent. If he then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your father, which is in heaven, give good things to them that ask him? We often think that he's the one giving us the stone or the one giving us the serpent. Right, like, why are you giving us to me?

Zac:

I think of it now is when I send my kids to high school. I know they're gonna have challenges. There's gonna be kids swearing, there's gonna be hard tests, there's gonna be assumptions and rumors and gossip and all of those things. But I don't send my kid to school to suffer and struggle. They go to grow and when they come home, I am completely available to help them with their math and to help them tips here to help them through all of the emotional stuff. I'm better with the math, she's better with the emotions, with our daughters, and I think Heavenly Father is available to us and there to help us, but he's not gonna take away our agency. He's gonna give us that gift to grow and give us the help when we need it. So through this experience I've learned his love is unconditional. He's gonna let us go through those experiences, but he's also gonna send angels to help us.

Tiffany:

And I'll just bounce off. We just had a leadership meeting last week and Elder Jensen was talking about just meeting people where they are and he shared a scripture. It's in John 1925. And it's when Jesus is on the cross and talks about his mother and his mother's sister being right there. So he had somebody read it out loud and they said now they're stood by the cross of Jesus' mother. And Elder Jensen put him to a stop right there and said, okay, stop, you're like okay, and he's like that's the message. We need to remember that his mom couldn't do anything, but she was right there and it just, it really hit me. And so Zach's talking about angels around us.

Tiffany:

It's when you see people going through stuff. Sometimes they're across, so to speak. Sometimes all we can do is just have empathy and be there, and I know there's so many people that wanted to like help us and I've put myself in their shoes since, like it's hard to know what to do to help people and sometimes all you can do is just be there with them and that would mean everything. That meant everything to us. I remember their Relief Society coming couple of weeks, maybe even a week before Sadie passed away, and they just planted flowers in our flower beds and we just sat on the porch and watched them do that.

Tiffany:

But, man, we love flowers and we love the colors and it was just neat to have them there doing that. And I know there's so many instances that that journal or have you know thoughts of, but I'm sure there's so many things people have done that I can't really reflect on. But I'll never forget the feeling of being supported and so I love that scripture because it just opened my eyes to like, yeah, we can't always be the fix-its, we can't always take that cross from people, but they'll know that we love them and that we were there for them. Yeah, so that's part of being the angels.

Lily:

Yeah Well, thank you guys so much for sharing this it's been. It's always neat to hear everybody's stories and to see what lessons you've learned that anchor you to the city, and I really appreciate you guys taking the time to do this. And is there any other things you guys wanna add, or is that good?

Zac:

Thank you.

Lily:

Oh, thank you Lily. Awesome, thank you guys. Thanks again for tuning into More Than Coincidence Remembering Jesus Christ in your Story. Please follow us on social media or share us with a friend. If you have an experience you'd like to share, feel free to reach out to morethancoincidencerememberhim at gmailcom. I can't wait to hear all of the amazing memories you all have of our Savior. See you next time.