More than Coincidence: Remembering Jesus Christ in Your Story
As covenant keeping disciples of Jesus Christ we have been commanded to Remember Him always. As the “Author and finisher of our faith,” our Savior writes personal experiences into each of our lives which can later strengthen, empower, and bring us peace upon reflection. This podcast is dedicated to sharing these anchoring memories from everyone’s unique stories in order to collectively remember and testify of the reality of Jesus Christ and His presence in our lives.
Please reach out to me if you are interested in sharing your story! I would LOVE to hear from you. :)
Follow us on Social Media:
Facebook: More than Coincidence: Remembering Jesus Christ in Your Story
Instagram: mtc.rememberingjesuschrist
Website: https://morethancoincidencerememberingjesuschristinyourstory.buzzsprout.com
Email: morethancoincidence.rememberhim@gmail.com
#RememberHim #christian #teamjesus #ldspodcast #testimony #ldslife #hearhim #thinkcelestial #christianpodcast #lds #Jesus #lastdays #jesuschrist #godisgood #memories #neverforget #helives #faithingod #faithinchrist #balmofgilead #masterhealer #faith #ldsconf
More than Coincidence: Remembering Jesus Christ in Your Story
Letting Christ Work His Wonders with Mark T.
Have you ever experienced a moment so profound that it altered your perception of faith entirely? Join us on this emotional episode as Mark shares memories that forced me him reassess his belief in Christ and find solace in spirituality such as the sudden loss of his father in a car accident. We discuss finding a balance between taking personal responsibility and being an active participant in our own lives and standing back to watch God work His wonders and miracles.
As the episode progresses, we emphasize the critical role of scriptural immersion and application in this process of seeking balance as we discuss the profound lessons hidden in biblical stories such as Uzzah and the Ark of the Covenant. Concluding with insights on maintaining spiritual discipline and the impact of consistent practices, Mark bares a heartfelt testimony of the reality of Jesus Christ and His enduring presence in our lives. Tune in for an episode that promises to uplift, challenge, and inspire your spiritual journey!
Please reach out to me if you are interested in sharing your story! I would LOVE to hear from you. :)
Follow us on Social Media:
Facebook: More than Coincidence: Remembering Jesus Christ in Your Story
Instagram: mtc.rememberingjesuschrist
Website: https://morethancoincidencerememberingjesuschristinyourstory.buzzsprout.com
Email: morethancoincidence.rememberhim@gmail.com
**Transcripts available on website!
Hello everyone and welcome to. More Than Coincidence, remembering Jesus Christ in your Story as the author and finisher of our faith, our Savior writes personal experiences into each of our lives which can later strengthen, empower and bring us peace upon reflection. This podcast is dedicated to sharing these anchoring memories from everyone's unique stories in order to collectively remember and testify of the reality of Jesus Christ and his presence in our lives. I'm your host, lily, and I'm very excited to share these experiences together. Good evening everybody. Tonight on the podcast we have Mark. How are you doing Good? Will you mind introducing yourself?
Speaker 3:Yeah, mark Thomas, I'm 54 years old, just turned 54 years old. Happy birthday, thank you. And I, yeah, I guess. I guess just a little brief introduction on who I am is is pretty much my name, just common. I don't stand out in crowds just like my name is. There's probably about 554 Mark Thomas's in Facebook. I believe is the last time I saw and so, yeah, I think there's been some unique experiences in my life that even though I'm a common person, common name, there's some uniqueness that comes with it as well.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm really excited to hear it, so I'll ask you the question then, mark what memories do you have that you reflect on, that perk your heart and remembrance of Jesus Christ and anchor you to him?
Speaker 3:Ooh, Um. Well, I guess I've got three or four of them, three or four that are very significant, that stay with me um and that I do remember a lot very significant that stay with me, and that I do remember a lot. I think the first one is I just go really way back into must have been about eight or nine years old and at this time, just understand where I grew up, grew up in Utah, born and raised, and my parents were divorced when I was two years old.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow, and so kind of the joke is that I have an older brother and so my brother caused the marriage, then I caused it, and so, um, anyway, she had met another man, and so we were. We're a blended family. So I now have a stepdad, um my mother, and then me and my brother, and so we weren't, we weren't church goers, if that makes sense. Yeah.
Speaker 3:We were Mormon, we were LDS Right, I wasn't baptized, but, just like other religions, that's just what we were born as and that's what we were here, right, but rarely went to church. But back in those days we had primary, but primary was after school, it wasn't. It wasn't necessarily on a sunday. So, um, never really been to a sacrament meeting, but sometimes we'd go to primary on sundays and then there was like a primary during the week and I remember this one specific primary teacher was great and so I'd go to, I'd go to primary with my friends and just kind of learned the stories of Jesus through primary. And at one one night I was at home and there was a fire in Las Vegas and it was on the news and it was almost it was a Sunday night, I think it was like a 60 minutes TV show, but they were talking about the fire because there were no sprinklers inside the hotel so people were jumping to their death.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, that's sad.
Speaker 3:And this lady was speaking that they were interviewing to and she had just made mention about Jesus and somehow, because of that moment, there were some dots being connected with primary and the stories of Jesus. And then this lady saying she saw Jesus when she she was jumping. She survived the jump, but she just said I saw Jesus, he told me to jump, and so it dawned on me that these aren't just stories. And then it hit me that Jesus was a real person. And so I remember just having this overwhelming excitement going hey, wait a minute, mom, mom, and I grabbed my mom and I was like, mom, all these stories we hear about Jesus, was there really a Jesus in this world? Like, is this a true story? And she was smiling and a good mom and she just said well, yeah, what do you think? The?
Speaker 3:you know, if you think about our years, you, our years, are right based on jesus christ so yes, there definitely was a jesus christ that lived yeah on this earth and I was like whoa and it was that's so cool I was just a little kid. I was just a little kid, but it was just being able to really understand that this wasn't just stories that you get told when you go to bed at night.
Speaker 1:It was a right, there's something to this.
Speaker 3:There was a legitimate person and yeah, and with there being a little bit a legitimate person, the impact this legitimate person had on the earth. I was like this wow jesus is real, so now you kind of parlay that into the stories yeah now we're not. We're not an active religious family, so I didn't go to church um, in fact I was. I was think I was on the cusp of being a convert.
Speaker 1:Baptism the bishop was coming over to the house over and over again and after that you're probably like, yeah, I want to hear more stories about this, jesus.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I honestly, I got I didn't get baptized because of jesus.
Speaker 1:I got, I got baptized because all my friends were right it looked kind of fun to have a party and get you know. Honestly, I feel like that's pretty much every eight-year-old at least that's what I remember it being like that too for me yeah yeah, so it was like I didn't.
Speaker 3:I wasn't a nine-year-old convert baptism, but it was the month before I turned nine that I got baptized yeah and um, but we still didn't go to church or anything like that, just just did it.
Speaker 3:That's what your family did, and we went to church on Christmas and everything like that. But during this time of of that moment, um, my dad so I haven't talked about my dad and my step mom my dad had met a woman and she was very, um, I would almost say cut from the cloth, very cut from the cloth. Born and raised in the church and gospel and the principles, yeah, and my dad was very much not.
Speaker 1:Oh interesting.
Speaker 3:So he had fallen in love with her. She had fallen in love with him. But my dad had gone to my grandpa and said I want to turn my life around. I want my kids back. Wow Cool. And all my grandpa said is, if you get active in the church, your kids will be delivered to you. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And so you know, just to speed up the story, there was an event that had happened on a Sunday night again, where my mom was driving me to go stay with my dad and she said I think this is the time that you need to ask your dad if you can go live with him for good wow so I said okay, and so we went up on the door.
Speaker 3:My dad brought us in my stepmom, just so you know, um call her mama lisa, but um, she's she's 22 at the time and I'm 12 oh, wow my brother's 14 yeah and she's our stepmom, so so they've started their family. My brother already had lived there they started their family and it was me saying, hey, can I come live with?
Speaker 3:you yeah and my dad said well, if you come live with us, we would love to have you, but you have to go to church every Sunday uh, you're like well, and I'm like, and pretty much it was like, yeah, I'll do anything, I'll do anything. So if that's what I need to do and when you're a teenager, it wasn't that easy, yeah, but I did get my influence there. Right.
Speaker 3:So this parlays into the next step. So the first step was really just discovering and realizing that these aren't stories, that Jesus is real, yeah, christ is real yeah. The realizing that this, these aren't stories, that jesus is real. Yeah, the next one is what I call my delivery from egypt.
Speaker 3:So I was delivered from egypt into, quote-unquote, the promised land, but there was a little bit of a wilderness time right and so, um, I now live in a house where I'm 12 years old and the way the schools work, all these kids had gone to junior high. But I'd never been to junior high. I was in elementary, so I had a lot of change and and with the changes and stuff I didn't really have any friends. So I'd left all my friends and everything I was comfortable with right into this whole new arena. Even going to church on Sunday was was hard. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But part of that was they had mutual and then you gotta go meet people and you gotta go up to mutual and and it was uncomfortable because I didn't really know anybody right, and so I'd go to this mutual just in a sense, not dreading it, but just yeah, can't wait till it's over.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm certain like what's gonna happen there. Right, and it's like when you're an awkward teenager, you think everybody's staring at you anyway.
Speaker 3:No, you're absolutely right, so I found myself just um. There's a cut through field to the church, um houses weren't everywhere, there were fields and so I would cut through this field every week. I would cut through and go up to this um, go up to the church for mutual right, and every week there was the. The house that I'd cut by was a chain link fence and there was a mangy dog on a collar and it would just go crazy and bark at me yeah.
Speaker 3:And so I was, just, I was in a moment and on this particular day, you know, I was just really feeling alone and not not sure about anything, but really for some reason just questioning God, like I'm going to church every Sunday. Right.
Speaker 3:I've got this mutual. We share scriptures, right, and I know that Jesus existed, but there's no Jesus here on earth right now, right? So then it was more like God. Are you real, right? Do you exist? Are you there? Do you know me? Kind of those conversations and I said because I don't know anybody, I'm all alone yeah and so I'm cutting through. And then of course, there's that stupid dog, and the dog's barking at me and just pulling on that chain like he just wants to.
Speaker 3:He just wants to attack yeah, he just wants to get you and I'm looking at him, I'm like I have never done anything to cross you and this is just all thought yeah, I've never done anything to cross you. Why do you hate me so much, like why I didn't do anything to you?
Speaker 3:right all I want to do is just walk by, yeah, and while the dog's just biting at me, you know just yelping, biting and everything pulling, it's pulling on his neck and he pulled so much that the dog actually stopped and just vomits and throws up.
Speaker 1:Yep Dogs are kind of dumb that way sometimes and I'm looking at it and I'm like oh, serves him right. Right.
Speaker 3:Serves him right. And then it just paused for a minute and then just started eating its vomit. Oh, that's so crazy Just lapping it up and I'm like that is the most disgusting dog I've ever seen and I just walked on, you know, but there was in that moment there was. It wasn't a kneel down prayer or anything, it was just a thought. More than anything, it was a thought of do you exist? Do you know me? Do?
Speaker 3:you know, that I'm struggling. I'm supposed to go to church every Sunday, but I don't even know what I'm searching for, yeah. There's just nothing there, and so one of the things that the young men were really good at in this ward is you always had prayer and scripture in a song when you you'd start off, so kind of the boys and girls would get together.
Speaker 3:You have the prayer, scripture and song and then you either stay together or you break off yeah, and so the boys were in charge of the scripture, and the scripture they shared was very telling, very interesting, which probably means nothing to anybody, but it applies to my life forever yeah so anyway, this kid gets up smirking and he's laughing and he says you know, um like to share this scripture and I believe it's third nephi, chapter seven, verse eight, okay, and basically it just says no more than four years have passed away since, um, since basically they've gone from their righteousness back to sinning, right like a dog returns to its vomit and so that that scripture, even though it matters nothing to anybody else and for them it was a smirky, funny scripture to share
Speaker 1:I'm like whoa you saw me I saw the dog.
Speaker 3:Yeah, lap up its vomit. I come here, the scripture gets shared and you're talking about dog. How is that? And all of a sudden it was just mark. I know you, you're fine, I know you, so going you piece these puzzles together. Yeah. And that's why I can say you know, this is when I discovered Jesus, right, I was in a wilderness and just kind of like an Egyptian, just didn't really know much. Yeah. And then I went into a wilderness. You know was delivered. Yep.
Speaker 3:Went into the wilderness, and now I'm searching for my land of promise. Yeah. That type of thing. So that had a huge impact on me. And then, of course, um, you know, I guess you know, just backing up, I don't really have any worldly things to brag about. I don't have a college degree, I'm a college dropout, I've got hey, me too, I don't have anything either oh, is that right, yeah, we're the same yeah so.
Speaker 3:So a lot of times you hear people get interviewed and they just have this cool CV, this resume, that they wrote down and everything, and it's like you know, my greatest title has been grandpa. Right. So I don't think that I fit a mold that most people are looking for. Right. I'm just an individual. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So anyway, going through all this, I did do some of the cookie cutter things where I met my wife in high school, went on a mission, served my mission, had many experiences on my mission, especially reading the Book of Mormon for the first time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I didn't read scriptures, I just basically figured I'd learn the church when I went on a mission when you went on a mission and then I came home and we started our family and I was really taught to live the commandments of the gospel, but I wouldn't say that I was living a life for Christ. Right. And so I still have a lot of learning and growing to go. But probably the third thing that really woke me up is June 6th, so 6-6 of 2006.
Speaker 1:Oh man, that is a very auspicious date. Yeah, you hear 6-6-6. Ominous, I should say Ominous date, you hear?
Speaker 3:6-6-6,. You're like, okay, where is he going? So, on that date, the reason why I remember that date, so well it was a beautiful day my career, my family, I was making more money than we needed. Uh, this is probably the first time that my wife didn't have to work yeah and so you're like we made it.
Speaker 3:Yep, we're here, we arrived, and everything's good and in fact it's so good. I'm out on the golf course golfing and getting paid to golf. Yeah, Like it was. Yeah, it was like really good Right. But like the Nephites just kind of forgot my I forgot my God forgot what I was doing this for. Right.
Speaker 3:More secular than you would say spiritual Uh-huh, um. And you really, to turn to God, will always be humbled. You need to be humbled. To turn to God, yeah, and if you can do it on your own, great. But if God wants you humbled, he'll humble you.
Speaker 1:Did you get hit in the head with a golf club or something?
Speaker 3:No, no, While you were golfing. No, actually I would say I got hit in the head, but it was an unexpected hit. We were getting ready to go. It was a beautiful day on June 6th. Yeah, my wife called me and she said your Uncle Carl called and he wants you to call him back. I said, well, he's probably just planning the Thomas family reunion. Yeah. I'll call him later. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then she called back and said, hey, are you alone? And usually that means she wants to talk to me yeah my friends around, so I always just say, yes, I'm alone. She said she'll just tell me what the business is, she go. And I said yeah she says you can't be alone. Right now, somebody's being there and I'm like, oh, this got serious yeah so what? What had happened is my dad was killed in a car accident.
Speaker 3:Oh, my god, and so that changed everything from kind of a belief to really going through this. I didn't get to say goodbye. And again. My birthday is June 12th. So, he always calls me on my birthday. I'm not going to get a call this time. There were a lot of things going through my mind that, okay, this death thing just became real Because in our family we were very healthy. So, we've never had a tragedy. We've always had people die of old age. But nobody's really died in a car accident Unexpectedly right.
Speaker 3:So an unexpected death really had me feeling orphaned and what am I going to do without my dad, because I could always rely on him. Now I'm all alone. Right. And not only am I all alone. Is all this stuff that we, that I say, I believe?
Speaker 1:exactly.
Speaker 3:You have to really think about it now really true and um, so that's. That was probably the third event that forced me into being in a humble state, to really start looking at my, my relationship with jesus christ. Not just do I believe in him, do I believe him right do I have a relationship with him? Exactly and um, yeah, so did your dad ever reactivate?
Speaker 1:like was he? Did he ever do what he was wanting to do and and go back to church and like and do all that kind of stuff? Yeah, yeah, in fact he was in a bishopric and so he, um, um, obviously fell in love.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and the life that he was living in his 20s to 30s right um, I think he he had his taste of it, and was like this isn't what life's about.
Speaker 3:I want a family, I want my kids back right, met my, my stepmom, and she was a good compass.
Speaker 1:She was yeah.
Speaker 3:She was a great compass for him to where he was reactivated. Been in the other squirm. Yeah, Bishop Rick, everything like that. Love teaching Sunday school.
Speaker 1:So when he passed, do you feel like you're even your spiritual leader, like the guy you would look to for if you needed something was just gone.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, it was just um just my friend, you know, I mean my, my, my father son relationship with my dad. Yeah. Um, probably not the the stereotypical father son relationship you know he was. He was one that um boy.
Speaker 2:I couldn't embarrass him with any problem or any issue that I came with he always was never.
Speaker 3:it was never uncomfortable, that's cool though, so he was the type that didn't matter what the subject line was. Yeah. He knew a way to keep it comfortable.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And so yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it was my leader, it was my dad, it was my friend.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everything just gone. It's my leader, it was my dad.
Speaker 3:It was my friend. Yeah, everything just gone. It's my safety net yeah. You know so. So, yeah, it was, still is, and it's been. What, what is it? 18, 19 years now? Yeah, so it's. That was a turning point for me. And then, when that happened, boy lo and behold, the job that was really good is I'm fired.
Speaker 3:So I don't have the job and have to go through all these things and the way that I had been structurally created. My testimony was very geared on obedience versus faith, and so I, in a sense, I almost think I had a really good foundation and I was building this house and the house I was building, even though the foundation was good, the house, I didn't like the house, and so I kind of had to tear it back down to the stick figures and rebuild. My belief morphed, christ-centered, than church-centered, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:No, it does, yeah, totally.
Speaker 3:So that's really where I've evolved to, and that doesn't mean that I've by far it doesn't mean that I've lived a perfect life. I've had some very, very good struggles. Yeah, good struggles.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that would probably be my fourth thing on my testimony of christ is that you can't really understand the savior if you're too much of a saint, if that makes sense I love that. I honestly love that okay, because where I'm going with that is, if you don't apply the atonement, you don't know christ exactly like yes, amen, okay, don't know Christ. Exactly Like yes, amen, okay yeah, so fortunately I picked a very good wife that could watch the evolution of Mark and know that if I'm taking spiritual flight, you know, don't be nervous.
Speaker 3:Don't be nervous, I'm in conflict and I'm seeking for some answer and need help right but every time I go down this path I know that god loves me enough that I'm gonna find you'll find it I find my way to christ yeah he'll put the signs up, right, the signs up.
Speaker 3:But right, you might wander for a little bit sure but you'll be back yeah, but you, you have to, you, you really have to allow, you have to allow yourself to to use and apply the atonement exactly until until you haven't accepted the fact that you are a sinner. I mean, this sounds very, um, probably evangelical and protestant, but until you are an absolute sinner and you know that you are nothing without christ right and you don't apply the atonement. How can you have a relationship with them?
Speaker 1:right, because then it's like what entire point, what is the point at all? He just becomes this kind of figurehead or this historical figure. You can't actually come to know him unless you have talked with him, unless he's been able to be there for you.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, 100% know your place with them and that I think that's yeah, that's the last, probably the last thing I would say about my relationship with christ and my most really recent spanking that I would say I've received yeah you know, because I I do have to be disciplined yeah and um refocused right, but I was reading um in chronicles are you familiar with the usa? No, I.
Speaker 1:No, I'm not. What's that?
Speaker 3:So Uzzah is an Israelite. So the story is Uzzah studying the Ark. Okay. So the Israelites have the Ark of the Covenant. Right.
Speaker 3:And they move it in wars and stuff, but only the Levites or the priesthood holders are allowed to do it Are allowed to move it, touch it Exactly, and they have to be pure and clean to do anything with it. And they have to be pure and clean to do anything with it. So I'm reading this story and the oxen are pulling the Ark of the Covenant and the oxen stumble and Uzzah reaches up and goes to help so that we don't lose the Ark of the Covenant.
Speaker 1:Right, but he wasn't. Was he clean?
Speaker 3:No, so God strikes him dead right there. Oh what? And I'm like so, as I'm reading this and God strikes him dead, I'm like, okay, that seems extreme. Seems very extreme. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:Kind of even like ungodly, like would God really do that? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And so I spent a lot of time just kind of going. It seems extreme. I mean, luza had good intentions so what, in a sense, in my pondering and prayers? What do I need to learn? What is, what is this? How?
Speaker 1:does this story apply to me?
Speaker 3:to you exactly what do I need to learn? And um, what I gained in that moment is and it actually parlays into Jonah and the well- as well. Because I've never read the Bible. I just barely read the Bible. Yeah, that's more than me.
Speaker 1:I've, like, skipped all the good parts, but I haven't read it in between. Yeah Well, that's the thing, is I?
Speaker 3:just always. I'm the type of person that I can criticize someone and say look, you say that you're Christian, but you've never read the Bible yourself. Right. And then I look in the mirror and I'm like I always act like I've read the Bible, but I've never read it cover to cover. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I decided to read it cover to cover. And even Jonah and the well you know, I thought I knew the story until I read it. Yeah, and there's little tidbits, little nuggets that are for you personally, right, so even Jonah and the. Well, there was one experience there, but I was reading these two stories and pondering them together. But the real thing was was, even though Uzzah had really good intentions, his intentions was really thinking he was higher than God, and the reason why is and I believe this is my personal- thing, is that God had to teach the Israelites a lesson that God is in charge.
Speaker 3:We're not saving God, god saves us. Oh, and so Uzzah, although we think he had good intentions. Uzzah thought very highly of himself that he needed to come in and save the ark, the ark right. And not rely on God to let it fall or to save it. Wow, and so my lesson in that is that God is in charge.
Speaker 3:So when we talk about conspiracy theories, and everything like that it's all going to work out because God is in charge Right, and so it's always just knowing your place, and when you are supposed to do something, god's going to say that this is your duty, your responsibility to do.
Speaker 1:Right, how did that apply to Jonah then too? Now I'm curious. Oh, because you were pondering both at the same time, you said, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So Jonah? Obviously we all know that Jonah just didn't want to go and preach for God. Yeah. And call people unto repentance. Right. So the whale comes, the big fish. Yeah. The whale comes, eats him, swallows him he's there for three days spits him out. He says, fine, I'll go do it Right. And he goes and preaches Right. And God forgives the people anyway.
Speaker 1:Right, and then he's all butthurt about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so he's upset, he's upset and he's, in a sense, sulking yeah, he's mad at dad. He's mad at his parents saying yeah, I knew you're gonna forgive him anyway. Why did?
Speaker 3:you make me go through all of this right when you were gonna do what you were gonna do, right like so, on one end. On one end, it's like well, let god handle everything because, he's in charge and on the other end, yeah you've got to be willing to hear when he tells you to do something to do something and so he's sulking. And then you know it. It really just seems funny.
Speaker 3:But god grows a a plant yeah, the plant yeah, and the plant shades him, and then he he creates a worm that eats it, and the plant, dies the plant dies. He's back out in the sun right and it ends. I know it's like the story it's like what, what does that mean? So that's left to your interpretation to ponder it, and I think what it really comes down to is you're gonna have good times, you're gonna have hard times and everything like that, and god knows them yeah but god's in charge. God's in charge, not you.
Speaker 3:You don't control this right so stop trying to control things and go with the flow, and that's just even in our youth activity we were going down the provo river and it just dawned on me you can paddle against the current, but you got to know that god's current is going this way. Just go with the current yeah and it's going to be hard. It's going to be cold water was cold, right, but we don't live in a utopia society. We live in a society that's going to be hard. Can we be resilient. That's about what I got.
Speaker 1:Wow, there's so much. I feel like there's so much to unpack here.
Speaker 3:Well, let's unpack it.
Speaker 1:How have you personally found the balance between letting God take the wheel and being an active participant? Because I feel like that's something that I really struggle with, because I lean, I err more on the side of, well, I'm just going to do it all, I'm going to do everything, and then I will kind of make it come to pass, right. I'm kind of a little prideful that way. But like, how do you like, really like how, how have you been able to kind of find that balance between letting saying jesus take the wheel, but oh, can I drive for a little bit right?
Speaker 3:or like where do you find that balance? What's my, what's my role? Yeah, exactly wow, I don't think I have an answer well, darn it.
Speaker 1:I guess you shouldn't be on this podcast.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah I shouldn't, I shouldn't be on this podcast. Yeah, I shouldn't be on the Just kidding, Like I guess. I'm still trying to find that answer. Yeah. Because I think there is a balance. But Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:I don't know. My daughter gave a talk yesterday in church about remembering Christ and the scriptures and everything like that, and I think the real balance is is staying connected, um, like if I had to figure it out today. Yeah, um, man, man, it's just, it's just relying on the spirit, because there's sometimes people will ask you things that you aren't supposed to do, that you should say no to. Right, let me put it that way. Yeah, we can't. Just because we say no to one thing doesn't mean we're saying no to everything. You have to say no to certain things because no means yes to other things. Correct.
Speaker 3:Yes means no to other things. So, for example, if you've got to take care of your family Right, and then you have a family down the street that needs help, yeah, right, and then you have a family down the street that needs help. Yeah, are you supposed to be the one that goes and saves that family, or do you need to?
Speaker 1:stay at home.
Speaker 3:Stay at home, because if you say yes to save that family, you're saying no to take giving attention to your family exactly but sometimes you can, it's like work yeah when is a husband working too much and should be in the home? Yeah, yeah I don't know if there's a textbook answer. Yeah, I think you. I think you just know. Um, like, I was talking to a friend one time when he gave me a great answer I said what's that line?
Speaker 3:it was going back to conspiracy theories yeah what's that line the government crosses that you will not let them cross? Correct and he said you know, I don't know what that line is, but when they cross it I'll know. And I was like boy, that was really, that was really insightful for me and I think that's when you go, what is the balance?
Speaker 3:you'll know when you're out of balance yeah you'll know when there needs to be a fix, when you're out of balance, right, but um, I just I think, going back to the ooze the story, the biggest thing that I've seen recently is a lot of people are worried about others. Yeah, they're so worried that someone's having what they call faith crises or so-and-so in the family's going to leave the church. They're not going to church anymore, they're not doing this or they're not doing that, we're so focused on them. Right.
Speaker 3:And I remember talking to a family member saying what are you worried about? Yeah, and it's like because I want us all to be together in the next life. Yeah, it's. It's understandable, yeah well, I mean, I mean it's a good, it's a good goal, but it's more like we'll make. What makes you think we won't be? Yeah you know, and again it goes back to the ooze of thing yeah, are you? Are you saving them, or is God saving them? Right.
Speaker 3:What is your place? And that's where the ooze of things started coming into my life that I don't have to. I am not the savior. I don't have that ability. Right. I don't have the desire, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's just be real. It's way above our pay grade. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Jesus loves people more than I do. Yeah, you know. So the fact of the matter is his purpose and his mission and his he's already accomplished it. The atonement is infinite. Exactly. All you have to do is read the scriptures and you know that all of that is taken care of. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But it's not on you, it's not on me. Right, so it's not on me, right? So maybe that's where the question is going with me is, maybe there's people that are feeling like it's their job to save someone, or, you know, if I don't do this, I remember, you know cute little mormon tv shows or movies they did where cars going off the cliff. He's like oh, I didn't teach you the gospel and all that and you're never gonna make it to the celestial kingdom, or something like it was jokingly.
Speaker 1:Right, right right.
Speaker 3:But I do think a lot of people in their minds are oozes in our church in that they think that they're the saviors of people. Right. It's not our job, right, we don't save, we can't, we can't save, yeah, like literally yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think that's really interesting and almost counterintuitive, because I think in the church we do focus a lot on service and we focus a lot, like even with President Nelson's big 100th birthday celebration. It's the one right, it's the 99 plus one, and I think sometimes we forget that if we don't have that foundation, like if we don't focus on ourselves and our relationship with christ, how are we supposed to be there for someone else?
Speaker 1:or how, and how is christ even going to be able to use us if we can't hear him or we aren't in that, in that place where we can testify and say I know him, right? So, and I think that, yeah, because we're always so focused on, oh, we have to do the all these things with all these other people and and like you were saying, save people we don't really focus on, well, am I saved, like, do I know my Savior well enough to be able to do whatever he asks of me? And I think that, honestly, that should come first rather than, you know, go save your neighbor, which is important, but how can you save your neighbor if you don't know how to like, if you don't have that skill right? Someone's drowning and you don't know how to swim? Don't jump in after them, right? Like legitimately.
Speaker 3:Well, that's really insightful, I think, because if you put those analogies together and you jump in and you can't swim, it's not really smart, is it?
Speaker 1:No, you're both drowning.
Speaker 3:You're both drowned yeah, so you can't save someone from drowning if you can't swim? Yeah, and many of us think that that's our job. Yeah, they think we'll jump in and God will teach us how to swim or will save us in the swimming.
Speaker 1:Right, maybe he will which he can do, he could.
Speaker 3:But right, maybe you will. Which he can do. He could, but sometimes like I don't know.
Speaker 1:I feel like maybe most often than not that's not how it goes. But there is common sense, like if you know if the air, if you're in a plane, if oxygen mass comes down.
Speaker 3:You're always supposed to put it on you first, right before you can help someone else, right? It's not that we don't help, it's not that we don't jump in right but we need. We need to be in a strong place too right and a secure. We need to be on higher ground, like you.
Speaker 1:Don't even jump in the water with them right, you usually throw something or do a stick.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah yeah, you don't put yourself in danger right exactly, but but yeah, the the saving is up to the lord, and I think that's one of the things that I've I've just been looking at in my own life is how many times have I been the one that I thought, oh, yeah. I'm I'm a man, I've got to go and I've got to fix this right and that's what I'm really working on right now is yeah you are not Clark Kent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't, I can't look around the world.
Speaker 3:I'm not the superhero savior, I I'm not going to change much Right, but I can change me. Yeah, through Christ.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and at the end of the day, you know, I think the scripture is often, I guess you can't can you really overquote a scripture, I don't know, but the one that's like, even if you bring one soul to me, if you are that one soul, you're saved, like you've got it, you're there. And I think that sometimes we always think of that in the missionary sense and we don't think about how true and important it is, cause if you're so focused on other people and you're not, you're not with Jesus, then it's kind of like, oh well, I guess that doesn't didn't mean anything.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know and I and you think about, like moms and dads, where this is. This is real and I'm almost thinking more of a baby boom generation. I don't know if it's a gen x yet maybe gen x thinks this way, but it seems like baby boom boomer parents in the church want all their kids to be obedient and perfect and never make a mistake right so that they all can get to the celestial kingdom together, because how miserable would the mother be or the father be if so-and-so wasn't with them. Right.
Speaker 3:And if you just dissect that and you take it down and you focus on yourself and you make it a celestial kingdom. Right. Isn't the doctrine that you could go visit anybody you want? Right. People just can't go up a degree. But you can go down and visit the other degrees.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I don't know all the nitty gritty in that, but that definitely sounds doable and nice yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I think the point is is if you are saved and you receive the glory of Christ, then heaven will be what Right, you'll be with the people that you want to be with exactly so. Let christ work it out right. Let christ save, let christ do all the work. Yeah, and and everyone needs to, and it really is is we're either rebelling or we're basically and it sounds I can't think of the right word but we're being tied to Christ. We're being sealed to Christ, if you will. Exactly, we're being tied to him.
Speaker 3:So we're following him or we're choosing not to follow him. Right.
Speaker 3:And that's the real breakdown, the binary side. You either are following him or you're not following him. And so that's really what I think is we are making that choice right, but it's a fortunately. I've been around a long enough to see that it's. It's a long process to build a relationship with christ and really have the strong faith, but you're gonna have it tested right your dad's gonna die one day and you're not gonna expect it, and then you're gonna really have to start applying. Do I really believe these things?
Speaker 3:right well, I was. I was curious with um you know, being a young mother yeah and you guys are working hard and right raising a family. What do you fear like what? What's your, what's your biggest anxiety in raising a family right now?
Speaker 1:you know what? That's a really awesome question and for me it really does come back to spiritually like not not being this in tune and in line with the savior enough that when he says jump, I can say how high and I can just do it. That, I think, for me, has been my biggest and, and can my family and can the rest of my family do that too? You know, like I was randomly prompted to keep my oldest home from school and homeschool her, and I was like why? Like I don't really want to be around her for a long time during the day because she and I butt heads a lot, and so I'm like school sounds really nice, you know, and every single time I prayed about it, the Spirit just kept telling me she needs to be rooted in the gospel. If she's at school for six hours a day, she's not going to get that Like. But if you homeschool her, you can start every day with a prayer, you can read scriptures and then you can focus all of your education and all of the learning in a Christ-centered environment. And that's what we've been doing. I've been able to do that, and can I say that things have been better? No, but I feel like that is helping to kind of ease my conscience of the okay, well, I'm doing what I can to spiritually prepare my child for whatever could happen, because I feel like that's kind of, yeah, that's my biggest fear is that maybe this is a weird example, but like the spirit will prompt everybody to gather to Zion. And am I in a place to do that? You know, and that's kind of extreme. Zion, and am I in a place to do that? You know, and that's kind of extreme. But I really do want to be able to, to be there when Christ says I need someone to do this and I say here, am I send me right? And but it's also kind of toxic sometimes, because I'm always like I'll never be spiritual enough.
Speaker 1:Because then in that part in within that I want to be spiritual enough, I get wrapped up and worried about oh well, if I'm not perfect, if I'm not doing all these things, if I'm not, you know, x, y or Z, I'll never reach. I have to reach this imaginary standard of spirituality in order to achieve that right, in order to like hear whatever he says and to be able to do that, and that's something that I am currently really trying to work on right now for me personally and but maybe I'm weird, maybe I'm a tip I, I, I don't know if I'm weird and not a normal average person in the sense that I don't know how many people would say, yeah, I really just want to hear jesus in my life and I'm scared I can't hear him. But that, legitimately, is my fear. Like that, I won't be able to be in tune enough with the Savior to know if and when he needs something, or if and when people need something right. So other than that you know, just the world catching on fire.
Speaker 3:Well, that's probably just a week away, Right right, you know that's coming anyway, but yeah but like temporarily preparing your family for whatever comes.
Speaker 1:And it's weird because when it comes to and I think this was the question that I kind of wanted to ask you that I couldn't remember earlier, but I feel like, as I have been, you know, this year has obviously been really crazy just in the world in general and as I've been thinking about it, I really have prayed constantly like, okay, well, what can I do to be spiritually prepared? What can I do to be mentally emotionally prepared? What can I do to be temporally prepared in case any of this happens? And it's been the weirdest thing, like I have been prompted more to study in my scriptures and to spiritually root myself than to temporally root myself and to, and it's been weird, like there was one time I was like praying, I was like, really, are you sure you really only want me to just kind of focus on the gospel right now? And you know, and you don't, there's nothing temporally. You want me to prepare while you know we're in this insane election year. And the spirit was like, well, I guess I should say christ and you know whoever answered my prayer. And the spirit was like, well, I guess I should say Christ and you know, whoever answered my prayer was just said okay, well, buy diapers. Stock up on diapers because you're about to have a baby Formulane diapers.
Speaker 1:No, for reals, Buy diapers and buy one of those tools that, in case an earthquake happens, you can shut off your gas. Those are the only two things I was prompted, and every single time I go back to it and I go back to it. I'm like is there anything else? You know, food storage, anything else like, do I need to go buy gallon drums for water? The spirit's like no, let's be spiritually rooted and do you have enough diapers? And I think that's the thing that we, that I love. When you're like when you were kind of talking about trusting God to save but also being able to kind of steer your own ship, you have to really kind of sit there and figure out okay, well, what does he want me to do? And then, what can I? That, what's within my power to do, and you just do it Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so let me, um, I've got two thoughts, but I've got, I've got a question with you and I'm not sure which thought to to or which vein to go down. Um, but I think I, Okay, let's go with the first one. First one is really on packing up and getting ready, and you would hit something that I'm really big on right now. I'm ready. And that was reading scriptures. So why do you think God is telling you that you need to immerse yourself in the scriptures? Why is that the number one thing?
Speaker 1:to you. Yeah well, yeah well, and honestly, I've thought about that a lot too and I think, at least for me, as I've been reading through the book of Mormon, this time with not I don't usually stick with come, follow me. I just kind of I will either read where I want to read or wherever I feel impressed to read. I have two things have really stuck out to me. First, literally how much Jesus is in the Book of Mormon. Like I knew he was there but really reading through, I have been just blown away at just the insane testimonies and the sacrifices of some of these saints in the Book of Mormon. Like I'm obsessed with Amulek, like I love him, I love his story. He's just a hero that I really wish I could meet in the next life, right, like there are just so many things that the way that they've borne their testimony to me about the Savior specifically and the sacrifices that they have made has just really touched my heart and, I think, strengthened my testimony that for whatever is about to come, I can be like Amulek right. That for whatever is about to come, I can be like Amulek right.
Speaker 1:And then the other thing that has really stuck out to me a lot has been the relationships and the way people act in human nature in the Book of Mormon. So just kind of in a macro scale, like the pride cycle, but on a micro level too, like each of the Antichrists. What were they all about? How did they convince people to do things? How, why would the, why would whoever was good, whether it was the Nephites or the Lamanites, why what would make them want to change or turn, or what was that one thing that made them start to sin more or, you know, was, and or even just like Laman and Lemuel's personalities? And there were just so many things relational, wise and about human nature that just really have struck me and made me think a lot about why, like kind of just how we're so fallen and we're so awful and that's why we need a savior Right, or even it just helps me to see through the lies and the deception of what's being said out there.
Speaker 1:I love reading about the Antichrist because there were so many things that they say that I hear on blast right now on loudspeakers, and it's so cool to see that in the Book of Mormon and to know people don't change. Cool to see that in the Book of Mormon and to know people don't change the devil doesn't necessarily. His tactics might kind of change a little bit, but the core root of his arguments have been the same since the Book of Mormon and so it's been really neat seeing how, for example, alma and Amulek contended with Zeezrom right and were able to specifically address his points and yeah, it's just really stuck out to me. Okay, I don't know if that like no, it did, it did like because because it's funny, it was even like coherent I was.
Speaker 3:I was even um kora whore was the most recent one that I just read about, and you know his tactics of mocking. Yeah, you know little half-truths right and then out and out lies right um, you know, you really do need to look for those signs and symptoms of antichrist because, right like you said, it was before this world, even you know to to now. This is just right there is, there is a persuasion to either follow and choose christ yeah or to deny, reject, reject and choose not to go with Christ.
Speaker 1:Well, and the thing that I love, I think it was Khoro Hor. I can't remember if it was Khoro Hor and I'd have to go back and look. But one thing that really struck me it was when Ammon and his yeah, ammon and his brothers or whoever thatman, and all the, all his buddies, those sons of Helaman, they were going around and Korohor or whoever the Antichrist was at that time, he went into Zarahemla and he made Zarahemla almost fall right. These, these, these people who were supposed to be so righteous in the, in the Nephites. But then when he went to the other outskirts, cities, like I think it was the anti-Nephi-Lehites they like grabbed him and they're like bro, get out of here. They kicked him out of the city and for and and his specific arguments again, I can't remember which Antichrist it was, but his specific arguments were basically like oh, it's okay to sin a little. Oh, okay to sin a little, oh, it's okay to do this. And so it was to me the spirit.
Speaker 1:When I read that, the spirit told me, like he was, the nephites were looking to justify sin and they were looking to try, and, you know, find that wiggle room or find that little area, that gray area, and he validated that for them and that's why zarahemla fell. But the other people didn't, because they were like no, we, we like literally know christ, so get out of here, right. So I thought, like, had the nephites known christ and not just been maybe living like what you were saying, on just obedience, but truly built on faith, like the and and on a more sure foundation, like the anti-nehi nephi lehi's were, then maybe it would have been different, maybe zararahemla wouldn't have fallen. They would have had to go back and like really try and convert them again. But yeah, no, I love, I love the Antichrist. That's my favorite when they all, when they show up and stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, and it's. It's funny too, because they'll basically say they'll. They'll turn to you and say you can't believe of a surety that Jesus Christ is resurrected and lives. You can't, you can't, you can't believe that Like there's. You would have to show that to me for me to believe. Right, but they're saying the same thing.
Speaker 1:that we could say to them is Right, well, where's your proof that he doesn't?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Where's your proof? It's like yeah, that's what we're saying. Is it's faith based? And I think.
Speaker 3:I think faith is a gift, because if we knew of a surety, Right. In the state that we're in, we would all be so rebellious. Yeah, because we know Christ Right. Faith in Christ, I think, is a security or a safety. Yeah, in his mercy. Yeah, exactly, but the other question I was going to have for you is how are you going to respond when you're perfectly capable and you know you can fix something, but you're told not to that. It's not your time, it's not your place, don't touch it. Right.
Speaker 3:Example, I was going to say yeah, give me a good example, because I okay example, and this is this is a little twist on scriptures, because it's the way I read it, not the way other people read it right. But when um jesus at the last supper is telling peter, he says, hey, you're gonna deny me yeah before the cock crows. You're gonna deny me and he's like lord, I'd never do that right, I'd never do that right and he goes, you will and in fact, you won't just deny me once, you'll deny me three times.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and peter's just like no way. Well, the reason why I I have a different take on this is because then, when Judas goes to sell him to for pieces of silver, what does Peter do? But pulls out a sword and cuts off the Roman soldier's ear. He's ready to fight. Yeah, right, yeah, jesus, says Peter, knock it off Right, picks up the ear, heals the ear and says this is not the time and, in a sense, you need to leave, so let's let's let's play that back.
Speaker 3:Right. What if Jesus is not telling him? You know, in a sense, you lack faith in me and you're going to deny me three times as a prophecy. What if he's basically telling him and commanding him you have to deny me so you can live. Yeah, it's not your time to die, meaning it's not your time to go with me or to fight this cause with me Exactly. It's your time to stay and carry on my church.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker 3:What if that scenario was more played out? As I'm commanding you and you're going to come across three instances where you're going to someone's going to ask you and you're going to want to say you know the Christ, but you need to deny me three times, not? That I'm telling you that you have to deny him, but I'm just saying what in your life is, is an ooze, a moment where you feel like I've got to let the Lord do this and you're perfectly capable. You're perfectly capable to help. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But you get the impression from the Lord that says back off, that's not your place, like, are you open to those feelings? Because obviously I'm asking the question because I think about it, I think about what?
Speaker 1:Well, I think that that plays directly into my greatest fear, right Of like. I want to be there, you know, for whatever he needs, and if that means I have to deny him in order to live, I think I would feel like I'm being torn in two, but I think I would probably do it. But yeah, wow, that's a really good question.
Speaker 3:And I think it really comes down to are we? Are we immersed in the scriptures? Like you said, so that we know what christ has in store for us what our job is, what we do and how we follow not how we lead christ, but how we follow him right when do we?
Speaker 3:stand up and when do we stand down? Exactly but ultimately it comes down to, we have to be prepared to be able to do both meaning yeah we can't be soft people. We've got to be very, very strong people right in a sense, peter had the strength, capability and desire to cut off a roman's ear and go yeah, for real yeah.
Speaker 1:But, to have the self-control and to say yeah.
Speaker 3:And Christ also tells us to offer the other cheek. Yeah. To offer the other cheek doesn't mean you're weak, it means you are giving them an offer, but they can't take it from you. Right. You have to be strong enough that nobody can punch you. Right. You know that type of thing. So that's where I'm kind of going with the balance of what is? My relationship with Christ. Know my place. Yeah. But Christ wants strong people.
Speaker 1:Exactly, you know Well, and I think that that's where you know our covenants that we make in the temple of sacrifice and consecration come to my mind because I feel like I have had. I have had time and times in my life where I've had to base. I have had to feel like I've had to offer up Isaac onto the altar Right, and sometimes Isaac got burned Like I had to. I had to give that up and to trust and to know that Christ had me and I think that that's where the yeah, like you said, like that's where the strength comes from, and that's that's why it's so important for us to know the Savior and that's so important for us to be able to look back on memories and be able to reflect and see, kind of, how he's worked in our lives, so that we can know, okay, well, and that this time might be similar to that time, or I was able to do this before I can do this again. Right, you know and experience, yeah, and it's it's the school of hard knocks, like you're just really, you're just trying to go day by day, but I think, I think once we have that relationship with the savior and we're able to focus on that and we're able to truly hear him and know him, because why would I want to sacrifice or or do something for a person I don't know, right. So I think that's why it's so important for us right now, especially when things are really Shiz is just starting to hit the fan.
Speaker 1:Let's just say this I feel like that's a nice way to say it, but I really feel like that's why it's so important for us to know the Savior is because he is going to ask us each to do things individually that are going to try us and be hard for us, and we're going to look.
Speaker 1:We might even look at other people and be like why am I having to do this? And they're not. And you have to have that faith and that strength to be able to say you know, I know him and he has a plan for me and and he wouldn't ask me to do something that isn't going to have purpose, right, that purpose might be to put me inside of a fire and refine me a lot, but I know, at the end of the day, at least I have the faith and the hope that at the end of the day, I'm going to be better for it and I can give myself charity and grace and say you know, thy will be done, please carry me, or please do whatever you have to do to help me get through this Right. Well, whatever that is. So I think that that is an excellent question that you bring up, that we should all honestly ask ourselves, and I'd like to turn it on you what would you, would you literally do anything that God asked you to do?
Speaker 3:The genuine answer is I don't know. I don't like the genuine answers. I would like to say yes, yeah, but I don't know if I'm there yet. I don't know if my faith is that strong yet. Yeah. But I would like to get there where no, no questions asked. Yes, I want to have that answer yeah, I would like to say no question yeah that's not. There's no question to that. The answer is yes, right, but I don't know if I've gone through the refiner's fire to know that I would right.
Speaker 1:Which kind of is sad to think that. Oh man, maybe in order to do that, you've got to walk through that fire first.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and feel the feel, the burn, to be able to say, yeah, I'll do it, yeah I do it again think about, like you, you think about the realities of what faith really is. You know again, it's not a sure. You don't have absolute fact that jesus christ is going to save you. Let let's put it that way, right? And so, as you go down this road, you want to say well, if, if someone told me to sacrifice Isaac on the altar.
Speaker 3:You know that's pretty extreme. Yeah, that's an extreme sacrifice and I'd like to say, yes, I would, but I think I'd have a lot of doubts and questions along the way, right, a lot of questions and doubts. Like this doesn't make sense. I mean, you're God. Why would you tell me not to kill? Now you're telling me to kill? There's a lot of things that can go into where this doesn't make sense. I have a lot of questions, right? So, yeah, I guess that's my answers.
Speaker 3:I'd like to say yes, but I don't know if my faith is there yet. But I think I would say yes on a lot of things. I think I'd say yes on a lot of things, but it would really have to come down to imposters, like my belief in taking the Lord's name in vain is that if you say his name, it's pretty crass, it's pretty disrespectful. But for me, taking the Lord's name in vain is using the Lord's name for gain, if you will. Like I always told my daughter, I said, if you ever have anybody that says they went to the temple, they prayed and you're supposed to be their wife, Run away.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's be careful, because their own interests they're putting God, they're putting God's name in their own interest in what they want. Yeah, so I think that would be a lot of my pause is I would need to know that it's coming directly from Christ, like I don't think I need a mediator between me and Christ. When it came down to, you need to do this for me. Right, it would have to be the spirit telling me no one else. Right, it would have to be the Spirit telling me no one else.
Speaker 3:If someone comes to me and says I feel really inspired that you need to move your family to Missouri right now, I would be like why? And then you find out they have a company in Missouri and they want you to work there, then that's kind of being funny.
Speaker 3:but at the same time, just be careful that a lot of people take the lord's name in vain for their own personal gain. Right and yeah, so that's still where I'm at, I think. I think where I've grown and my my testimony of christ is I just started. Yeah, it sounds so weird. Yeah, because I had all these, but all these moments. There's been many years and many days and many experiences of things that I forgot. But it hit me and this is probably the vein that I'm on right now is the condemnation that comes upon us from not reading the scriptures. So, if you look at section 84 in the doctrine of covenants basically joseph smith in his time, so this is back in the 1800s.
Speaker 3:The church is under condemnations because you treat lightly the scriptures the scriptures, the gifts from god, mainly the book of mormon right we have all this precious information to have us remember, understand, know and build a relationship with christ exactly, exactly. And it just collects dust. And so when I was younger, you know in the late 80s, early 90s, then Ezra Taft Benson said I remember that, yeah, yeah, because the church was still under condemnation. We were still under condemnation.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:My question is I have not found a prophet or apostle.
Speaker 1:That has revoked that.
Speaker 3:That has said we're no longer under condemnation yeah. So the warning, I think the warning to me, not to the church but to me right, I'm a member of the church, but the warning to me is how long are you going to be under condemnation before you're condemned? Yeah, you know how long. How. How long are you going to try the lord's patience? Right so that's where I was, like I've got to read, I've just got to get in the scriptures yeah and I'm not going to read books that pull me from the scriptures.
Speaker 3:I'm going to read books that lead me to the scriptures right and and so that's why I was really taken back by you saying you know, the thing that I've been told to prepare on is to read the scriptures. That's's really my message and again, I'm not saving anybody Right, but my message has always been.
Speaker 1:Well from Christ to save you. This is what he's told you.
Speaker 3:Yeah and hey, it's almost like getting in shape. Man, you're looking good. What are you doing?
Speaker 1:You kind of say I'm reading the scriptures. Yeah Well, captain Moroni diet.
Speaker 3:There's something we can see a change in you. So, using physical activity. I was 50 pounds overweight. This is a while ago. I lost 50 pounds. Congratulations yeah but I had help. I had someone who went with me and did it day by day, taught me the discipline of it. Right.
Speaker 3:Really good friend and through that physical challenge and everything, everything. It just taught me that's what you do spiritually yeah and you have to spiritually work out, and so people will start saying, hey, I can tell there's something different about you. What's different about you? Yeah and it's not that you're saving anyone. You can say well, I pray and read my scriptures every day yeah and that may sound simple, they're like well, how do you do it?
Speaker 3:well, look, look at this app. This will give you something to read, but make sure you ponder, make sure you pray right. I'm not saving anybody, I'm just saying this is what's helped me exactly and so I think I've. I've gotten more to a point where people ask I don't necessarily be wary of giving advice because wise men don't need it, fools won't heed it, yeah, but but when people notice a difference and you get in conversation, you can talk to them. Right.
Speaker 3:But you're not going to force them to do anything. Yeah, we're all on our own journey. We all have our own sins and when we don't want anyone to justify or gratify their sins, if you will.
Speaker 3:Right, that's a rebellion, but God knows that we're weak men, yeah. So I just love what Desmond Tutu said as well. This is another one that really hit me like a ton of bricks. Yeah, and that is, let me see if I can remember right. I think we'll be surprised at who we see in heaven. God has a soft spot for the sinner. His standards are quite low, and I think that's really again going back to know your place. Right. Know that you can't, you know you can't do anything without Christ. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And so you've got to build a relationship with Christ to be saved Right and to be counted as one of his. And to build a relationship with christ to be saved right and to be, um, counted as one of his and to be a sheep, yeah. So he, he'll give us abilities to be strong and powerful, and we will be strong and powerful, but we'll have to know how to sheathe our, our swords that's the hardest part for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just want to go fight yeah, me too, I want to go do like I want to, yeah it's like.
Speaker 3:It's like someone, just someone, whenever you know we write at noon.
Speaker 3:Okay, let's go let's go, let's go, let's go now. But at the same time, it's so easy to say we write at noon, then you get up there, just just like we were talking about hiking. Yeah, you get up there, and if you haven't practiced, you're not ready. Yeah, and so right now it's reading the scriptures and getting ready and being prepared, right, and then I think I think if we do that and we have a relation with christ, then we're not so, we're not so anxious, everything is yeah again, god's in control yeah god saves.
Speaker 3:God does this right we just listen to a spirit and follow yeah, and you make it sound so easy it's not, it's not and that's that's.
Speaker 1:That's probably what's really funny is yeah, words like the irony of everything words are easy.
Speaker 3:It's the application that's hard yeah you know? And so again, kind of like proverbs and psalms, one speaks to the head, the other speaks to the heart.
Speaker 3:Right, you know, you, you've got to have both you've got to be have that common sense, but y'all have to Kind of like Proverbs and Psalms one speaks to the head, the other speaks to the heart, right, you know, you've got to have both, you've got to have that common sense, but you all have to have that feeling. But in the end it's work, right, you just have to be willing to work and make mistakes, mm-hmm, you know, because if you don't practice and I think that's really where we're at right now is god's just saying get to work, get to practice exactly practice every day.
Speaker 3:Yeah, then you'll be ready, right. But if we're right at noon today and I'm not ready, I'm I'm making it 30 minutes yeah, exactly, exactly it's not gonna be. I'm not gonna make it a full day exactly, exactly, man, I love that.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't necessarily have any other thoughts or anything coming to my mind right now, or any other questions. So if you don't have any other final thoughts, would you mind just bring a testimony for us?
Speaker 3:um, sure, sure, uh, okay, so for me, really, really, I think it finishes with how I started um, you know, my, my, my name, mark christopher thomas. It's three first names. They're very common names. I'm just, I'm just a common joe, nothing, nothing like a donald trump or anything that just gets so much no right here. He's known for this, he's known for that or anything like that. I'm just just a guy, and somewhere, by being just a guy, I have learned how much value the Lord has for me through my experiences. And so, even though I'm a nobody and nothing, that keeps me grounded, it keeps my, my nose down but my chin up because I'm a child of god. I've told, um shelly, my wife. I just basically one day was sitting with her saying you know, one day I hope to actually see angels. You know, like you're reading the scripture, I'm like I really want to see an angel, and she's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:She jokingly says who do you think me all the time? Yeah, wow, that's funny. That would have been really funny she said no, she just looked at me.
Speaker 3:She goes. Who do you think you are? You know, and I even better yeah, and I said and I not that I got offended by it, but it just I quit. It was kind of like quips back I, I just said I'm a child of God and you know if, basically, these people that were sinners can have these great experiences and be converted and see Christ you know why can't I?
Speaker 3:You know I should be, I should have that, and that goes back to me going that's the great thing about faith is I'm probably not ready, right, and if I saw that I'd be at a higher accountability level than just using my faith. So, um, as far as my faith, I do know that it it is growing and I'm working on it, and I know that I need to read my scriptures so that I can get out of the combination, know that I need to read my scriptures so that I can get out of the condemnation of the Lord, yeah, but I know the Lord, um the, the Lord loves everyone. But I do believe, because of my experiences, not only does he love everyone, he knows everyone, right, which is really kind of a hard thing to understand. How can one being know everything?
Speaker 1:Seems really overwhelming it is.
Speaker 3:It is, but, but you know, you know, I believe it, I believe it and I do believe that the atonement is infinite and I do believe that everything will be righted in the end and that I think a lot of us are amped up in angst on the gospel because we don't really know it, even though we've grown up in it and have these little different sides. There is just like in the Book of Mormon, there are traditions of our fathers that are not doctrine, and so it's being able to read through these scriptures and see the same things that have happened on to really again get one with Christ. And that's really what I testify is that I do believe that Jesus Christ is real, but I also believe Christ and I work every day to basically believe Him more and more. Yeah, if that makes sense. So it's not a perfect belief, but I'm on the pathway of it, getting stronger and applying it in my life, not just again, not using words, but just yeah.
Speaker 3:Hopefully people watch me and they see my testimony. They don't have to hear my testimony.
Speaker 1:Right, right. Well, thank you so much for your time tonight. You have given me a lot to think about and it's been it's been a pleasure, so thank you so much.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you, it's been, uh, it's been. Actually I could say the same, just ditto right back. So thanks for the opportunity.
Speaker 1:Hey, no worries. Thanks again for tuning into more than coincidence Coincidence, Remembering Jesus Christ in your Story. Please follow us on social media or share us with a friend. If you have an experience you'd like to share, feel free to reach out to morethancoincidencerememberhim at gmailcom. I can't wait to hear all of the amazing memories you all have of our Savior. See you next time.